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  • 07:10

    well good evening and we'll get going now thank you for waiting and welcome to

    07:18

    a quite unusual way for us to be conducting an undergraduate information

    07:23

    evening but I'm very glad you're able to be here and and I hope that tonight even

    07:30

    though we're not able to talk to you directly in the same way that we would

    07:34

    normally do so I hope that you'll still find this evening useful for you and

    07:42

    informative so my name is Lesley Hitchens and I'm the Dean of this

    07:50

    faculty this is the eighth year of my deanship and I have to say it's been one

    07:58

    of the most exciting times for of my entire career and UTS is has just

    08:07

    been a fabulous experience to work here and and this faculty is just a great

    08:15

    faculty to be involved with both in terms of faculty and staff and students.

    08:23

    As Dean I'm responsible I have overall responsibility for all

    08:29

    that we do in the faculty and so I'm I have responsibility for the students and

    08:36

    I have responsibility for the staff and for the overall direction of the faculty

    08:42

    and as some of that that I want to tell you a little bit about tonight so that

    08:47

    you can understand more about who we are as a faculty of law. First a couple of

    08:55

    housekeeping matters

    09:10

    now some housekeeping matters tonight which a little bit different perhaps

    09:14

    from some of the things that we might normally have to mention in one of our

    09:21

    sessions so first of all I want to tell you and you can read that statement on

    09:27

    the screen but I want to tell you that this session is going to be recorded now

    09:34

    all that we chord is screen share which is the PowerPoint and a picture of me

    09:40

    and and the audio sound nothing there's no obviously filming of you

    09:51

    nothing of your words and so forth will be captured but but I want to tell you

    10:00

    that so that you understand that and the reason that we're doing it is so that we

    10:05

    can help provide information for others and help the broader community

    10:12

    understand the type of things that we're doing and it also helps us to build a

    10:18

    catalog if you like of questions and answers that could be useful for other

    10:22

    prospective students who are not able to be here tonight if you've got any

    10:28

    concerns about that you can see at the bottom of the screen an email address

    10:34

    and you can ask your questions around this so the other thing that I want to

    10:44

    just cover is I'm just having a little bit of trouble all right got it thanks

    10:53

    sorry is the way that we're going to manage questions tonight so obviously we

    10:59

    can't do our usual thing where you're in the room and you can ask questions but

    11:04

    you have got a Q&A box and I can see that many of you are using that already

    11:09

    the please don't use the chat function which you can also see available there

    11:16

    because that will become a little bit confusing but if you ask your Q&A

    11:22

    put your Q&A in at anytime and then we can answer them now what we'll do is we

    11:29

    will answer them at the end of the session and we also have a panel of some

    11:35

    others that I'll introduce you to bit later and they will also be able to help

    11:41

    to answer the questions many of the questions that you're putting up now may

    11:46

    in fact already be answered as as I go through the presentation but please feel

    11:54

    free please feel free to put any questions down we'll try and get to

    12:00

    those as best we can and we're going to try and leave plenty of time for your

    12:04

    questions so as I said what I want to do is talk to you about UTS law what it is

    12:15

    we do here and the type of legal education that we provide I think it's

    12:21

    really important to understand that we're not saying we're the best or that

    12:27

    you know you must come here it's about you having information of the of this

    12:33

    law school and making a choice because of your particular circumstances

    12:38

    interests and so forth but here are a couple of reasons I suppose as to why

    12:44

    UTS or what we see is important and successful about UTS so as you can see

    12:51

    UTS graduates do very well in securing jobs now this is a national survey

    12:59

    that's conducted and as you can see at the bottom of the screen the last this

    13:04

    information was available as at June to 19 so it's an independently conducted

    13:10

    survey measuring graduate outcomes and 92% of our graduates secure jobs within

    13:18

    four months of graduating and that's if they're full-time seeking full time etc

    13:24

    and they earn good salaries as well as you can see but let me tell you some

    13:33

    more about

    13:36

    about what we what sorry it's just tricky getting down to the the pole

    13:45

    keeps getting in the way but thanks so what else is that that's important about

    13:52

    the way in which the law of fact that all faculty works so UTS is still a

    14:02

    relatively young university and yet it's been incredibly successful in world

    14:08

    rankings and of course we always like that when went me too well in them but

    14:13

    it is ranked as Australia's number one University I think in a practical sense

    14:19

    what that does mean for us in the university and the law faculty is we're

    14:24

    not bound down in ways of doing things don't get me wrong I think tradition is

    14:30

    great and law is steeped in traditions it's one of the it's one of the

    14:35

    important ways if you like that it builds and grows and so forth but I

    14:42

    think it means that we are able to be more flexible and to make changes and to

    14:47

    respond to changing circumstances and to be willing to share old practices for

    14:54

    the law faculty we have a very strong commitment to education and to teaching

    15:01

    and to research that is really real-world involved if you like so

    15:10

    whilst we believe in education in teaching and research as being

    15:15

    academically rigorous we also believe that it's important to have a very

    15:21

    practically focused outcome so if you're studying law here we try to think about

    15:28

    that very much from the way in which we the way in which law is practiced the

    15:34

    way in which law develops and we make sure that the assessments and the way in

    15:39

    which you're taught all helped you to apply that law in a very practical sense

    15:45

    in the same way we think about that in terms of our

    15:49

    research we do research that we believe has a real-world impact and last year in

    15:56

    an Australian Government survey we were the only law school that achieved the

    16:03

    highest scores for both engagement and impact in relation to our research so

    16:09

    everything we do we try to see how does that work

    16:13

    in the real world what does it look like how does it have an impact and so many

    16:20

    of our colleagues as well have expertise in professional areas of law and bring

    16:27

    that knowledge and expertise into the faculty whether it's through taking a

    16:33

    class being one of our sessional teachers or whether it's coming in doing

    16:39

    guest lectures or in some other way engaged with our faculty but we believe

    16:45

    very strongly for that and I think that that's what people see our graduates as

    16:52

    being like graduates who are practically focused who are able to understand how

    16:58

    long work in the real world we we're very focused as well not only your

    17:05

    knowledge but in that practical sense of the spoking on skills as well so that we

    17:13

    all subjects think about the skills that might be needed and might be aligned

    17:19

    with that subject so for example if you're in a subject and there are

    17:25

    certain skills that might be looking at communication skills oral written

    17:29

    analytical skills problem-solving skills then the subject the academics teaching

    17:37

    that subject will make certain that the assessment in that subject is also

    17:44

    designed to assess not just your knowledge but also the skills that you

    17:51

    have developed and and that what they think are important for that particular

    17:56

    subject and so that's a very strong feature of what we try to do here

    18:03

    I think as well we have a very strong collaboration in this faculty between

    18:10

    academics between faculty staff and between students we work closely

    18:15

    together and I'll and a couple of examples of that which we'll talk about

    18:20

    later our law students Society we feel we have a great partnership with them

    18:25

    and also our Brennan justice and leadership program which is co run with

    18:31

    students and faculty so we have a very strong commitment to extracurricular

    18:38

    activity and many academics are engaged in supporting the students who run

    18:43

    competitions and so forth which further give opportunities for building skills

    18:49

    and knowledge as well as building relationships and networks and so forth

    18:55

    within the faculty but one of the things that I think is also really important

    19:05

    for us in terms of innovation is that we've really tried to look ahead to how

    19:11

    law is changing law as I said is a very traditional subject there are key areas

    19:19

    of knowledge and and they are called colloquially the priests near Lebanon so

    19:25

    there are key areas of knowledge to very traditional areas of law fundamental

    19:30

    areas of law that every student must learn and must be assessed in in order

    19:38

    to qualify to be admitted as a lawyer and those traditional areas of law will

    19:45

    never change the need for that deep disciplinary knowledge will not change

    19:49

    but the way in which lawyers are working the way in information technology

    19:55

    artificial intelligence is changing the practice of law it's creating new law

    20:01

    and is creating new challenges for old law it's really important that students

    20:08

    these days can have that understanding and that's something that has been very

    20:14

    important in this faculty in trying to understand what that might

    20:19

    look like and to give our students opportunities to to to understand what

    20:26

    that future of the legal profession might look like and I'll give you some

    20:32

    more illustration of that a little bit later so our curriculum is we believe

    20:41

    very integrated as I said we try to look to the future we're constantly

    20:46

    evaluating what the landscape looks like and we have really good connections with

    20:51

    those who are in practice those who are leading this legal technology space and

    20:58

    we work closely with them to understand what that looks like and to give our

    21:05

    students opportunities and I think something important here is that your

    21:12

    learning doesn't just come through a formal curriculum what you do in the

    21:17

    classroom of it is of course very helpful but we also strive to provide

    21:23

    opportunities that are extra curricular that can give really valuable and

    21:28

    important learning experiences for some students lifetime change life-changing

    21:33

    experiences one of those that we're very proud of is the Allens it's very long

    21:39

    titled the Holland's Naoto logic UTS Nortec knowledge for social justice and

    21:45

    this is the most amazing experience that our students have they work as

    21:49

    volunteers they spend a number of months working on this and they work with real

    21:57

    NGO clients who have a problem that they think might be able to be solved through

    22:02

    the use of technological applications the students work with Alan's and major

    22:08

    law firm and teams and with tech advisers and out of that they build

    22:15

    technological solutions for the client this isn't just a practice area it's not

    22:21

    just a game the applications have to be ready to be used by the end of the

    22:29

    challenge for students for the client and I'm very

    22:34

    proud to say that I think of over the last three years that probably means

    22:39

    we've developed about 15 or so applications all but one are in use and

    22:45

    the only one that isn't in use was because of a because the law changed but

    22:50

    these have been really valuable opportunities for students and and in

    22:59

    unfortunately this year we've had to cancel the Allens law Tech Challenge

    23:04

    because of the virus but we suddenly hope to bring it back again next year

    23:11

    with King & Wood Mallesons another major law firm we've been able to operate

    23:16

    hackathons and more recently we've been doing some design thinking work with

    23:21

    them around how to think through future ways in which level law with legal

    23:26

    professions will work with Westpac corporate counsel we've thought we've

    23:32

    done again some design thinking work within where students and and Westpac

    23:38

    themselves try to imagine what the future of you will look like so these

    23:43

    are just incredible experiences that students can have working with leaders

    23:48

    in the field whether as lawyers whether as people who are thinking about new

    23:54

    tech solutions and so forth some of our students who've done something like the

    23:58

    Ellen's Naoto challenge who've done major which I'll talk about in a moment

    24:05

    have gone on to create careers in that legal technology future area I'm just

    24:14

    going to talk briefly now about the legal futures and technology when we

    24:17

    started looking at this area we we realized that actually it was great

    24:22

    having the extracurricular opportunities but we should do something more coherent

    24:27

    within the law degree itself and what we have done is create a major now it says

    24:35

    there as you can see by the title more than just coding

    24:38

    I don't think coding learning to code is really what it's all about

    24:43

    what's really important is that you understand the implications

    24:47

    of technology as I'm aware not just how it works but also how it might affect

    24:54

    the law how it might affect practice how it might affect your ethical obligations

    25:00

    what is the responsible use of technology this is a major that students

    25:05

    don't have to enroll for in first year they can make a decision to do later in

    25:09

    the degree and it has it's a very practical course as well as being very

    25:15

    cutting-edge in the sense of looking at looking at opportunities for internship

    25:22

    and then doing capstone projects where students will work on specific projects

    25:28

    often again problems that that some were working with partnering with might want

    25:35

    addressed and so that's a really deep dive into understanding the future of

    25:42

    law and the technology around that so we I think are probably still the only law

    25:49

    school in Australia that has created a complete major around this rather than

    25:55

    just one or two subjects but I want to go on and talk about a little bit more

    26:02

    about the faculty student collaboration that we have and a really key part of

    26:07

    this is a Brennan justice and leadership program this is a faculty student

    26:14

    society collaboration it is wholly run in partnership with the faculty and with

    26:20

    the students there are two co directors of the Brennan justice and leadership

    26:25

    program a student and an academic and they make their decisions together we

    26:32

    don't make decisions and then tell the students what the program is going to be

    26:36

    doing we make them in partnership and the program we're not in this plenty of

    26:43

    opportunities to look on our website and other information to find out what it's

    26:48

    what the program is about in detail but in essence it tries to look at two key

    26:54

    areas excuse me is one whose the notion of justice and

    27:03

    so part of the program is reflections on justice but we do that in a whole

    27:09

    variety of ways and of course this session we've been doing it online as

    27:13

    well so we do things that are around you know it might be films that might be

    27:18

    talks it might be debates really exploring the notion of justice every

    27:25

    I've a very strong view that if you graduate as a lawyer no matter how you

    27:30

    practice lawyers have an additional responsibility and it is a

    27:35

    responsibility to see justice observed and justice and to see the rule of law

    27:40

    observed and it doesn't matter whether you practice in a commercial law those

    27:45

    or any type of practice those are fundamental attributes and values that

    27:51

    every lawyer should adhere to and so the Brennan program really sums that up the

    27:58

    other aspect of the Brennan justice and leadership program is the notion that

    28:03

    leadership comes through service that is leading professionals within the

    28:08

    community that our leadership is about service and so students do volunteer

    28:14

    work both locally and internationally in order to to reflect that part of the

    28:22

    program we have a number of other another number of other possibilities as

    28:32

    you can see there we have a number of centers all reflecting something that's

    28:36

    at the heart of this more faculty as well and that is social justice that we

    28:42

    believe in the fairness and equality and in justice so we have a number of

    28:50

    centers anti-slavery Australia which looks at modern issues such as forced

    28:55

    marriage labor trafficking and so forth Australasian legal information institute

    29:02

    which seeks to bring about open access to law nor health justice and the Center

    29:08

    for Media transition and students have opportunities to do

    29:12

    internships and voluntary work again at those centers as well as of course a

    29:17

    whole variety of other opportunities we also provide a lot of assistance to

    29:26

    students both UTSA and in the law faculty to help you think about careers

    29:31

    and particularly to give you opportunities to explore careers that

    29:35

    might not be front and center it's very easy as you'll discover when you're

    29:40

    doing a law degree to know the big law firms and you know how they're what what

    29:47

    the career path is for them but other areas of law which are equally valuable

    29:52

    equally important and which students may be interested in it's not always as easy

    29:56

    to find the route to those careers but we try to create those opportunities

    30:01

    through UTS careers and I should say also through our laws of student society

    30:06

    they do a lot of really good work to in helping to support students thinking

    30:11

    about future careers and I'm just going to let you read there on the screen to

    30:19

    two of the comments that people who are responsible for graduate employment in

    30:25

    two of the major national and international law firms have said about

    30:31

    our law school students

    30:39

    you

    30:53

    all right the other thing that I think is really important is that we have an

    30:59

    incredibly incredibly amazing actually faculty the academics that you talk but

    31:07

    we will be taught by our leaders both perhaps through the legal profession or

    31:13

    particular areas of law within the legal profession whether it's labor law lit

    31:18

    the way legal practice operates law and ethics and also in research so a

    31:24

    colleague there Talia Anthony does incredibly important

    31:30

    research again with a great deal of impact around Aboriginal communities and

    31:37

    injustice facing Aboriginal communities just recently she led quite a lot of

    31:44

    work about and you might have seen some of this in the media about the impact of

    31:49

    covert the covert virus on on prison communities so so we're very lucky that

    31:58

    our academics here have a very rich academic and professional and practical

    32:06

    background and they share that with our students and very often there are

    32:10

    research opportunities as well but I'm just now going to introduce one of our

    32:16

    colleagues and that's David Carter to just talk a little bit about how how his

    32:22

    study of law has led him to his career and actually what what his research area

    32:29

    is about and I should say that I taught David corporate law when I still taught

    32:34

    in the law faculty so thank you David Thank You Leslie so yes my name is David

    32:41

    Carter and I'm a senior lecturer here at UTS to know more faculty and as Leslie

    32:46

    said I'm both a proud graduate of the law school having completed my bachelor

    32:51

    of laws here which feels like a long time ago and of course as Leslie says I

    32:56

    had the pleasure of having Leslie my tutor and lecturer in corporate law

    33:00

    in fact it was myself and my brother who would sit at the back of the classroom

    33:04

    trying our very best to impress who I didn't know at the time have become my

    33:09

    future boss so I must have done something right and to be hired later on

    33:13

    look I suppose as an introduction to who I am and how someone like me would fit

    33:19

    into your time here at UTS if you were a student here you would probably first

    33:23

    meet me in criminal law in your first year of the LLB

    33:27

    or the JD for that matter this is a course subject that everyone undertakes

    33:32

    in a law degree and you would sit in a classroom alongside you know 25 or so

    33:37

    other students in a seminar with me and we would spend a couple of sessions of

    33:43

    two hours together a week so in four hours in total having a kind of

    33:47

    intensive small and interactive seminar around criminal law run procedure as we

    33:52

    work through everything from homicide through to fraud and business-related

    33:57

    white-collar crime as well as police powers to arrest later on you might come

    34:04

    across me in electives we have a huge range of electives in the faculty and my

    34:09

    elective areas tend to be around healthcare l or public health law

    34:14

    quarantine law so I'm very busy at the moment and then later on elective theory

    34:18

    subjects on things like justice so I'm one of their academics UTS who

    34:25

    specializes in health care and health law there's a pretty large group of us

    34:29

    here and we're probably one of the best places to study anything to do with that

    34:33

    in the country my other area of expertise is criminal law and so I get

    34:37

    to combine criminal law and healthcare law in new and interesting ways and it

    34:42

    means it's a busy time at the moment but also I hope it's something that can make

    34:47

    a big difference and that's something that I think unites us all UTS a real

    34:51

    desire to make a difference there are three things that I wanted to say and

    34:55

    only three things that I think are worth saying about studying law at UTS the

    35:00

    first is notes are really friendly and engaging and outward-looking faculty and

    35:05

    that means both our faculty members our academics as well as our students the

    35:09

    second is that as a faculty we are really flexible I think we really

    35:14

    understand and encourage our students to stretch themselves to take on new

    35:18

    challenges and we think we're as a faculty understand that that takes

    35:22

    genuine support from our academics to help our students go out into the world

    35:26

    and to do great things the third thing is the law faculty is interested in and

    35:32

    always involved in a wide and diverse way of being a lawyer both in a

    35:38

    traditional way as well as other ways too so a couple of things to say about

    35:43

    those the first thing is if I start with the last point the faculty is always

    35:47

    interested in supporting its students to engage in a diverse practice of law as

    35:51

    Lesley indicated my own career is a bit like this my degree at UTSA meant that I

    35:56

    was able to engage in a diverse set of workplaces and work experiences the

    36:01

    skills are developing networks I built meant that I've been privileged to work

    36:04

    in the healthcare sector where I spent most of my career a little time in

    36:08

    investment banking as well and then some time there not for profit sector leading

    36:12

    the Wayside Chapel in Kings Cross these are really diverse workplaces really

    36:17

    diverse ways of working but each of them relied on the education that I received

    36:22

    here my ability to work with people to not be afraid of conflict to be able to

    36:27

    engage with that conflict and to resolve it including sometimes very complex

    36:31

    disputes in health care but to also take on new areas of knowledge and to

    36:35

    synthesize them really quickly for the benefit of all this is something that is

    36:39

    the core of a legal education regardless of whether what you end up being a kind

    36:43

    of traditional looking lawyer a judge or someone like me who runs private

    36:48

    hospitals for a living these are the things that at some point you develop in

    36:52

    your degree and all of a sudden you find when you mean the workplace colleagues

    36:55

    from other disciplines sort of turning to you and saying wow how did you do

    36:58

    that and you think oh that's normal but actually it's something that we really

    37:02

    work hard to try and build in each of our students at the second point I want

    37:07

    to talk about and I think this is important particularly in today's

    37:09

    workplace is the UTS law is flexible and that we genuine genuinely want to

    37:15

    encourage our students to stretch themselves and to take on new challenges

    37:19

    I know for example just this week I'm working with one of my students that I

    37:24

    first met three or four years ago when they studied criminal law with me

    37:28

    in their first year I'm helping them to apply for an internship well it's a

    37:32

    online internship in these days of coded but I started to help them understand

    37:37

    how they can write their CV better and position themselves for interesting

    37:40

    adventures another student I started to work with is starting to stretch

    37:45

    themselves in new ways applying themselves to interesting legal

    37:49

    challenges and legal research about the use of public health powers to detain

    37:53

    people during covert D this is an area that I work on it is my specialty and I

    37:58

    spent the last couple of months working as part of UTS law with hospitals around

    38:02

    the country to write and develop new policies and procedures for how we deal

    38:07

    with the possibility of an overstretch health system in short how do we best in

    38:12

    a just way allocate resources when we have to choose between two people when

    38:16

    we've only got one bed and I've been able to bring this student in with me to

    38:19

    enter some of those conversations I've been able to bring them into this really

    38:23

    complex a new area of work and have been able to sort of lead them through the

    38:29

    policy and advising process as a lawyer and legal academic and help them do

    38:32

    legal research which is now making a real impact in the health system the

    38:37

    final point is that we are I think a really friendly are really engaging and

    38:42

    very outward looking group of people both our students and our faculty I

    38:46

    think if there's something that marks a UTS student and someone who is going to

    38:50

    do well here UTS is that their outward looking and that they are a doer so many

    38:56

    of our students are keen to make a difference came to try it ahead of

    38:59

    different types of work came to try the hands in different industries and so to

    39:04

    our our academic yes the people who will teach you and supervise you and guide

    39:08

    you are interested in war in the real world and interested in law in lots of

    39:13

    different areas I know that in my own team in criminal law we have people for

    39:17

    example who are really global experts in offensive language law people who are

    39:21

    really committed to reforming the way in which we punish people for swearing

    39:25

    because it has such Warfel effects on young people

    39:28

    Aboriginal 12 are a lot of people and people who are homeless but by the same

    39:32

    token another colleague has just come back from five years of working in

    39:35

    Malawi in Africa where he led a very large legal project to

    39:39

    rhe sentence all prisoners who were on death row after constitutional reforms

    39:43

    meant that we would recent as them and hopefully take them off death row I mean

    39:48

    these are amazing challenges they are very diverse right but they just even

    39:52

    exist just in criminal law and there are a whole bunch of other areas that you

    39:55

    might want to think about but I suppose the point is that if you come here and

    39:58

    you want to make a difference and try new things you'll be surrounded by

    40:01

    academics who understand that academics who want you to do that and academics

    40:05

    who are going to make sure that when you put your hand up to try something out

    40:08

    we're gonna be flexible enough to help you do that and so get out into the

    40:12

    world and make a difference thanks Leslie

    40:16

    thanks David very much and I'm going to just quickly get towards the end now and

    40:23

    and then there'll be opportunity for questions and also to hear from our

    40:28

    panel so I want to just also let you know that we have a lot of global

    40:34

    opportunities as well through internships and so forth and I think

    40:37

    these is something really important because it allows it allows you to

    40:45

    really experience first of all an understanding of law in another country

    40:49

    but also to develop your own sense of cultural awareness and being sensitive

    40:56

    to the different ways in which things are done and that comes through to the

    41:00

    fore particularly I think when you are in a in a work situation rather than

    41:06

    simply as a tourist and so we have a lot of opportunities for students to do that

    41:12

    and I think that sense of building that cultural awareness and also building

    41:17

    your resilience your ability to adapt to new situations something very important

    41:22

    that many of the larger law firms in particular are looking for or if you're

    41:27

    going to follow a path for social justice path working for an NGO or

    41:32

    something you really have to have that kind of resilience and that sensitivity

    41:37

    to other cultures and other ways of doing things there are lots of

    41:43

    scholarships are available and you can suddenly find more information about

    41:48

    those on our website and I know that a number of you have already been asking

    41:53

    questions and and colleagues have been answering some of those practical

    41:57

    questions as well so I'm not going to spend time on that now I want to just

    42:02

    tell you too that this year we are also offering courses to start in July so for

    42:09

    those of you who might have already finished school completed your HSC then

    42:14

    then those Bachelor of Laws or The Bachelor of Business Bachelor of Laws is

    42:21

    is available for enrollment and as usual you apply through you AK now of course

    42:28

    if it wasn't for the pandemic you would be

    42:30

    here tonight seeing our beautiful new building and we are at the top three

    42:35

    floors of that building and I can tell you it's really wonderful and level

    42:40

    fourteen is largely there so it's 14 15 and 16 level 14 is largely student space

    42:48

    and you can see here that the students have a moot court we have a couple of

    42:54

    trial courts they have their own office their own Learning Commons space and and

    43:00

    we have a wonderful a beautiful library in the new building as well but we hope

    43:06

    if you do come to UTSA that you will have a chance to neck to certainly by

    43:12

    next year to really experience this beautiful building which is just such a

    43:18

    pleasure to be in now I'm I'm going to go now to a question and answer panel

    43:26

    and I'm going to introduce our panel and and I'll just start off by asking a

    43:34

    couple of questions so that a couple of the members of the panel in a sense are

    43:38

    able to be introduced to you and and then we'll proceed with the questions

    43:45

    that you've been asking as as well and I'll moderate those as it were so first

    43:53

    of all I'd like to introduce Pia Gonzales here is a Bachelor of Laws

    44:00

    Bachelor business student and she is in her fifth year so her final year and I

    44:08

    then want to introduce jazz Oswald jazz is one of our alumni and as you can

    44:15

    see he's working in policy and operations assistant at FinTech

    44:19

    Australia and again I'll come back so you can hear a bit more about what Pier

    44:25

    and jazz focused on in their time at UTS David Carter you've just met and I also

    44:32

    wanted to introduce our associate professor Maxine Evans our associate

    44:37

    dean for education and she might also be able to help with some of the questions

    44:44

    and I know that she has in fact been busy as a number of the panel have been

    44:49

    answering some of the questions that you've already posed in the Q&A panel so

    44:56

    Pia what what might be interesting for students to know a little bit about is

    45:01

    the new talk the law internship subject and you took it with resolution one two

    45:09

    three so I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about how you found that

    45:13

    opportunity and and how how that sort of helped you what's what's important for

    45:20

    you in terms of that practical experience actually interestingly enough

    45:29

    I did participate in the internship at resolution 123 which is actually an

    45:35

    employment law of them and they practiced new law to provide quick

    45:39

    affordable and simple advice for employees and basically I stumbled

    45:46

    across the opportunity because I actually had been working for a start-up

    45:51

    in the UTS startup space in resolution one two three

    45:56

    as I've mentioned they practice new law and they actually operate out of the UTS

    46:02

    startup space as well and when I happened to stumble across someone a

    46:05

    solicitor at the firm who worked there and I just took genuine interest and

    46:11

    approached her to see if they had any opportunities whether they had any

    46:15

    experience opportunities and they actually told me that they were in the

    46:18

    process of developing a partnership with a Faculty of Law to participate in the

    46:23

    intern in the internship subject and so what that is is basically an elective

    46:28

    that you can do as part of your law degree at UTS and UTS basically has

    46:35

    partnerships with various different internship opportunities whether it's at

    46:40

    large firms or in-house counsel opportunities and I decided to do the

    46:45

    one at resolution one two three and I honestly think it's it's been it's like

    46:52

    incredibly instrumental in my experience and just shape

    46:56

    my understanding of the law and being able to be exposed to the practical

    47:00

    aspects of what it means to be a solicitor and also very interestingly in

    47:06

    practicing new law which is basically just a fancy way of saying that we use

    47:12

    technology to really facilitate legal processes and things that can really be

    47:18

    automated to kind of focus more on delivering more value to clients instead

    47:24

    of for example we're able to offer fixed fee solutions and do tasks based fees

    47:31

    rather than charging per hour so it's doing things like that that really make

    47:37

    a difference and yeah it's really been monumental in shaping my experience and

    47:42

    also shaping my career where I want to head into the future and also luckily

    47:47

    enough I was asked to say there as well so being that now has been a really

    47:52

    interesting opportunity especially in light of everything but it's been really

    47:55

    interesting to see as you were mentioning before Leslie I think as well

    47:59

    the really crucial role that technology plays and more especially especially in

    48:05

    a time like now to see how we've been able to pivot very easily because we

    48:09

    already were very used to working remotely and working from different

    48:13

    spaces and really seeing that playing out and and obviously being able to do

    48:19

    that it's part of an internship subject meant that I could also allow that

    48:23

    opportunity to count towards my degree as well which is a huge burner so it's a

    48:28

    win-win across the whole board for sure that's great Pierre and I might mention

    48:34

    that the founder of resolution 1-2-3 color stepping is also an alumna of UTS

    48:40

    Lauren and she's done just you know done a fabulous job and I'm I've noticed how

    48:46

    active she's been during this period because of all the employment issues

    48:50

    that have come up for people during the virus here one of the students has asked

    48:56

    a question at one of our attendees sorry has asked a question directly of you and

    49:00

    so I thought I might ask asked that one now how have you enjoyed your course and

    49:06

    what are you planning on pursuing as a career post University

    49:10

    and perhaps also in talking about how you've enjoyed your course you might

    49:14

    also talk about some of your extracurricular activities in with LSS

    49:18

    and your role there definitely I think starting a law degree in itself

    49:24

    obviously can be very intimidating at the start but I've definitely enjoyed my

    49:30

    experience at UTSA and something I wanted to mention as well in terms of

    49:34

    being involved in extracurricular opportunities at UTSA it's just the

    49:39

    culture that I've noticed at UTSA is honestly so empowering and the community

    49:45

    of law at UTSA we're just we seem to be very encouraging of each other and I

    49:51

    think that's really been a big part of why I enjoyed my degree at UTSA is that

    49:57

    my participation in extracurricular activities for example was encouraged by

    50:02

    friends that I had who said you know there are these opportunities why don't

    50:06

    you come and join us and they're a really big part of me participating in

    50:11

    later being the vice president of social justice at the UTSA LSS which is a

    50:15

    student little Society in student-run little society ETS and so I think really

    50:21

    the community and the culture that we have at UTSA law has been a huge factor

    50:28

    in in my enjoyment of the degree let alone so many other aspects to be honest

    50:33

    as I mentioned even being able to take elective it is so practical and that go

    50:39

    far beyond obviously you have your foundational skills of being able to

    50:45

    write clearly and communicate clearly and learning really incredibly

    50:49

    interesting theoretical concepts of the law but then extending even beyond that

    50:53

    and having assignments that really test our ability in ways that was actually

    51:00

    operate in the real world is a huge factor and why I also enjoyed my degree

    51:07

    great thanks Pia I might turn to jazz snob and jazz so you've finished law and

    51:14

    you'll now you're law degree and you're now working but when you did your law

    51:19

    degree you you did the legal futures and Technology major and I wondered if

    51:24

    you might talk about why you did that and how do you think that's influenced

    51:29

    your career yeah so I took up the labeled futures and Technology major

    51:36

    because I just have an interest in technology and how it intersects with

    51:39

    the law so I guess prior to that I had done

    51:43

    several things with university that kind of piqued their interest I did some

    51:46

    hackathons I did a legal technology moves so for those of you that don't

    51:52

    know what a mood is it's like a mock trial and it focused on legal technology

    51:57

    premises and that kind of snowballed and then I saw that this this major was on

    52:04

    offer and I took in I thought you know it'll be interesting it'll be I guess

    52:09

    future proofing my skill set for you know my career and I found it really

    52:13

    enjoyable it was definitely the most enjoyable units that I undertook in my

    52:19

    degree just because it was really what I was interested in it wasn't you know

    52:26

    something that like property law for example where it's something that you

    52:30

    have to take but it's not necessarily something that you'll enjoy you learn

    52:33

    about AI blockchain you know coding so as Leslie was saying you kind of

    52:42

    understand how coding works from a fundamental standpoint so that you can

    52:47

    communicate with people that do the coding and you can effectively

    52:51

    communicate in a commercial context so I found that all very helpful and they're

    52:57

    moving forward into my career obviously that's that's really helped me because

    53:01

    after I graduated I moved into a role at Kingwood Mallesons which is one of the

    53:08

    top law firms in the country it's one of the ones that was mentioned prior that

    53:11

    we have a partnership with and in that inner law firm I was doing a lot of

    53:20

    stuff with blockchain smart contracting derivatives data and that kind of stuff

    53:24

    and my background definitely helped me get into that area get the experience

    53:29

    that I needed to sell myself to the phone as someone that will be effective

    53:33

    in that area in their firm from there I worked there for about 14

    53:39

    months and now I've moved into a policy role at finding Australia so basically

    53:45

    we are a industry body that represents FinTech companies so FinTech is

    53:50

    something like after pay the financial technology company and we advocate to

    53:56

    the government policy positions and those kinds of things so I write a lot

    54:00

    of policy submissions to you know the Treasury those kinds of departments so

    54:05

    that's really interesting and I don't think that I'd be able to get to where I

    54:09

    am without the support that the faculty gave me without I guess the breadth of

    54:14

    experience and the ability to look at different areas of law outside of the

    54:21

    traditional Pressley 11 and also opportunities like internships where I

    54:26

    had the opportunity to go overseas to China so I was in Beijing a couple of

    54:30

    years ago and I worked at a legal technology company and I got to work

    54:34

    with the Australian Embassy on a few things over there that was pretty cool

    54:38

    so yeah I think it's a great opportunity it's a great major and it really does

    54:43

    set you up to be different from other job applicant and other students in the

    54:51

    industry going forward thanks Jess that's great and also really interesting

    54:58

    to hear that your work has a policy focus as well and that just those

    55:03

    varieties of career options for law fabulous degree to take you into other

    55:11

    areas like that still you know needing an understanding of law but because law

    55:16

    a law degree really does help you to think in very analytical ways to think

    55:23

    about process and so forth so that's great now there's a lot of questions and

    55:29

    so I'm going to a couple I think may have gotten answered through what jess

    55:37

    was just talking about then so I'm going to just try and run through here

    55:48

    now here's a good one for piya I have heard that there is a lot of reading

    55:52

    within law is this true oh it's the age

    56:00

    of course there is reading in a law degree but as I mentioned before I think

    56:07

    that the readings that you have to do it really everything that you're given it

    56:14

    you - yes really aims to build your skills in many different ways whether

    56:20

    it's patients or tenacity and perseverance and also the practical

    56:25

    skills so the rings that you do obviously they're always meaningful in

    56:29

    some way you're not getting readings just for the sake of it some sort of

    56:33

    punishment and I think it's really balanced out by the practical

    56:39

    assessments that we get for example I remember an administrative law having to

    56:44

    write a government submission for an assessment and just the different

    56:49

    formats of assessments that you can get you really then see the value of the

    56:53

    knowledge that you do get from the readings and from doing and I think as

    56:57

    well as I mentioned for the culture UTS and being able to share with your

    57:03

    colleagues and and understanding and distributing work words and having work

    57:07

    or group study sessions together really helps as well so and UTS to always have

    57:13

    really great support systems as well as the UTS LSS are they offer different

    57:19

    body programs and mental ships that you would definitely benefit from and I'm

    57:24

    saying the best way can navigate those readings and do them in the best way

    57:28

    possible so don't be scared to the readings it's all gonna be fine thanks

    57:34

    Pierre now there's a question here which I

    57:36

    think perhaps relates to something we're just seeing in terms of jazz's career

    57:41

    and and here are your list do you have a general percentage of how

    57:49

    many students who complete a law degree at UTS actually go on to practice more

    57:53

    it's an interesting question that's that's been asked here by Tara it's it's

    58:00

    quite a difficult question to answer and across the profession we don't we

    58:06

    don't really have a good indication of that the general understanding is that

    58:12

    around 50 to 60 percent around 60 percent go on to practice law

    58:19

    but as I was saying when jazz was talking about his role what we believe

    58:25

    is that a law degree opens up a range of opportunities that might be in policy

    58:30

    work it might be in other types of industry and and so we don't regard if

    58:38

    you like if a liar if people don't go on to practice law and some will go on to

    58:42

    practice law for a while and then that experience will take them as jazz was

    58:46

    showing into it into another path so a law degree whilst obviously we're making

    58:53

    certain that our law degree equips you to be admitted as a lawyer for practice

    59:00

    that we to our mind you may not practice law as such but you will use your law

    59:08

    degree one of our alumni he works in the film industry is very senior he runs his

    59:15

    own company and he said he never wanted to practice law but he uses law ever he

    59:21

    uses the skills that he learned every single day in his industry in his

    59:26

    business he uses the skills of actually how to read more his loan how to read

    59:32

    very well because his peer said there's a lot of it but and he used he'd learned

    59:38

    his skills and negotiation he learnt skills of how to analyze his so forth

    59:43

    and those of the skills that he uses throughout his business and so I think

    59:49

    that you know the majority of students will go on to practice law but but many

    59:57

    won't and and I think law is a very valuable career for that the other thing

    60:04

    that I think is is useful to know to remember is that most of you will do a

    60:11

    combined degree so as you can see Peter is doing a Bachelor of

    60:16

    with a Bachelor of business there are many many opportunities for you know in

    60:24

    terms of combinations of degrees for you to do and so what you're actually

    60:29

    graduating with is a law degree but also a degree in another discipline as well

    60:34

    so you're you may not practice law but you will use that law because you want

    60:41

    to work in say the media communications field or the engineering field or the

    60:45

    science field and again having those two disciplines can work very well together

    60:51

    in opening up broader career opportunities for you

    60:56

    now I'm going to there was a question that I thought Maxine could answer for

    61:03

    us Maxine what might be the pathways

    61:08

    available if if a student received an eight-hour lower than the selection ring

    61:14

    that's a great question thank you very much Leslie and welcome everyone to UTS

    61:19

    it's a pleasure to be with you in this virtual world evening yes I think I'm

    61:28

    able to do that Lizzie from my sorry to spare with me while I'm doing this I'll

    61:36

    I'll keep talking so I take some conscious of time how's that we've got

    61:43

    your back again but and don't worry just keep going yes yes awesome everyone at

    61:47

    UTS we have several pathways at the University and I'll just briefly mention

    61:53

    those I would encourage all school leavers to talk to your either careers

    61:59

    counsellor or senior studies teachers about what pathways are available to all

    62:04

    students so Yugi has UTS has its own unique pathway called inputs and that's

    62:11

    available for students that have experienced some degree of disadvantage

    62:15

    and what that enables those students to do if they receive an HR that is 10

    62:22

    marks less than the usual eight are each year and that does vary but for the last

    62:27

    couple of years the ETS Laurasia has sat around 96 97 so

    62:33

    if you receive 10 marks lower than that through the input scheme you'll be

    62:37

    offered a place into a law degree the other scheme but is also associated

    62:42

    with schools and we have information in more schools about this scheme is the

    62:47

    school's recommendation scheme and that schemes available for students you'll

    62:52

    have experienced quite severe hardship or exceptional circumstances as hasn't

    63:00

    meant that they can't achieve their full potential and for law if a student is

    63:06

    eligible for a place through the SRS as it's called you need to achieve an HR of

    63:11

    80 to be offered a place in the broad degree for any elite athletes out there

    63:18

    this evening you may also come through the elite athletes program and there's

    63:23

    information about that program on the website and then mostly very importantly

    63:29

    unless you put it very importantly we had another scheme through the

    63:34

    indigenous students pathway scheme so if you are an indigenous student you have

    63:39

    the opportunity to come through that's managed by John Bardo which is our

    63:43

    indigenous Center for Learning and research UGS and there's a direct entry

    63:49

    pathway through there there are several other pathways and I cannot just mention

    63:54

    them briefly you will find information on the website

    63:57

    I know many of our students and indeed several of our students didn't start

    64:02

    with us at UTS they had always wanted to come to UTS they had heard about the law

    64:07

    degree that they believe me suited them they might have had friends or siblings

    64:11

    that had studied with us at UTS so my advice to those G's is to commence your

    64:17

    law degree somewhere else you really want to do law and study hard in your

    64:23

    first your first year of law another university and then apply through us to

    64:29

    come to us subjects will be assessed and most students will receive some credit

    64:36

    recognition so you don't need to repeat all your subjects obviously depends of

    64:40

    the law school study the other pathway if you think

    64:44

    about it starting with us at UTS but not in a law degree let's say as as the Dean

    64:49

    indicated most of our students and during a double degree so you could

    64:53

    start for example business on communications because you don't achieve

    64:57

    the a chart first instance to get into law do a year in business communication

    65:03

    sites wherever do well study hard do well and you get lots of instructions

    65:09

    support assessments peers talked about through our course so it's a matter of

    65:15

    really studying hard but with that guidance that really makes it much

    65:21

    easier for you to know how you're going to study do well in your first year

    65:26

    again at Rice you act to come into a combined law and the other discipline

    65:33

    you've already got when you done that gives you the opportunity to it'll still

    65:38

    take a little bit longer but depending again on how your subjects are organized

    65:41

    it could take you between six months or one year longer and then another pathway

    65:47

    which I've just mentioned it does seem like to you as you ten eleven or twelve

    65:51

    students a long way off but it is a popular pathway for students who wanted

    65:59

    to do law and several reasons haven't been able to do law they do with green

    66:03

    another discipline and then they join us as a juris doctor or a JD student that's

    66:10

    a postgraduate law degree so the entry to that degree is having an

    66:14

    undergraduate degree in another discipline we their undertake your JD

    66:19

    and you're in the same position in terms of your academic qualifications as an

    66:24

    undergraduate degree and if I can just mention one thing that you might not be

    66:27

    aware of because again it's been in the future is to be admitted as a legal

    66:32

    practitioner and the Dean is spoken about the number of graduates that do

    66:36

    become admitted as legal practitioners and some may not go on to practice you

    66:41

    need to do the academic qualification which is your LLB or your JD you also

    66:46

    need to do practical qualification which is a practical legal training course and

    66:52

    we're very fortunate UGS to have a very long established

    66:55

    practical legal training course so here at UTS you can do both your academic

    67:00

    qualification and your practical qualification and then can be apply to

    67:05

    New South Wales Supreme Court to be admitted to practice thanks Leslie thank

    67:11

    you Thank You Maxine we've really run a over time but I thought since there are

    67:18

    quite a few questions around legal technology it might just be worth and

    67:24

    this is a challenge to you jazz in particular in the shortest possible time

    67:30

    and I think in the most general question here is so what does legal technology

    67:36

    mean in a practical sense so legal technology can mean several things

    67:43

    firstly it could be the application of technology in a professional legal

    67:47

    context such as document management or maybe using AI to comb through contracts

    67:54

    or to look through documents during discovery process when you're looking

    67:59

    for evidence during a trial the other the other way that it can be

    68:04

    that it can refer is through the interaction of the law and new

    68:09

    technologies so for example smart contracts and whether or not these can

    68:14

    be real contracts and a legally enforceable in a court of law

    68:18

    you know who's liable when a autonomous vehicle hits someone is the manufacturer

    68:23

    is the drivers the owner of the car and you know think things like of this

    68:29

    nature so it really is it's a bit of a contextual question but those are the

    68:34

    things that you look at in a legal major and then I guess moving forward in the

    68:38

    legal profession and especially were the things that I do I look at the legal

    68:44

    consequences of like what laws apply to this technology what rights do you have

    68:49

    if you hold Bitcoin or if you hold some kind of cryptocurrency

    68:54

    yeah all right thanks Jose and we'll well done and again this kind of lot on

    69:02

    our website that you can read about that and the nature of the the may

    69:07

    and so forth so we have run out of time we have not able to answer all of your

    69:13

    questions but you will receive an email in the next few days that does give a

    69:20

    response to your to your questions so we were you will get they will all get

    69:25

    covered thank you very much for joining us tonight I'm one of the nice things

    69:31

    when you do come onto campus for these evenings is we actually get to talk to

    69:36

    you face to face and to meet you and to hear a bit more about you but I hope

    69:40

    tonight has at least been helpful and hearing in particular I think from peer

    69:46

    and jazz and David about their experiences of being a student their

    69:52

    careers and so forth so thank you very much and good night