Recording: Tokenist, ally or accomplice?

Descriptive transcript

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our 2024 Reconciliation event commemorating Reconciliation Week. Welcome to all of you to talk today and to hear others share their views on how we better work together. And as we always do here on Gadigal land, we invite Aunty Glenda to acknowledge Country. Thank you, Aunty Glenda.

Thank you, Robyn, and all my UTS family. This is the start of Reconciliation Week, so I'd like to acknowledge I'm on the land of the Gadigal people and pay respects to Elders past, present and emerging. I also want to honour our non-Aboriginal brothers and sisters who walk with us on this journey of truth, justice and healing. I also want to say that today is National Sorry Day. So the start of Reconciliation is Sorry Day. I said once I've got nothing to reconcile, as someone who has been part of past policies that have affected my family and still continue to affect my families. But I'm proud to be part of anything that happens at UTS.

So I was part of a little team that set up Sorry Day and said we want to have a day where we can reflect on the fact that our families have been torn apart and they're still being torn apart, sadly. So sorry means it never happens again. If you look at the research from Jumbunna, 50% of the kids in care are our kids. We are not bad parents. We just need sometimes support from our traumas of being removed. So if we're going to say sorry, let's make sorry happen. Let's make it happen. Let's see how many kids are being returned to our families. And let's stop making—this is really controversial, so I'm sorry everyone if I offend—the agencies make big buckets of money out of our pain and our kids not being home, and then they return home when they're damaged and troubled.

So there's a pathway from the out-of-home care service to the juvenile justice service to the big house. And I want to put a stop to that. I want to put a stop. I want them to flip it around and say, these are the number of families that we've reconnected. These are the number of families that we have successfully put in the supports to keep the kids together. So I know that's a bit radical for an old girl, but, you know, I am at UTS and you're allowed to be radical.

Thank you, Aunty Glenda. And we acknowledge that we are on the land of the Gadigal people, the unceded land of the Gadigal people. We acknowledge this country, on your behalf I acknowledge this country, this place, the land, the water, the sand, the dirt, the many generations of people on the earth that sits below us, the spirit of this country that still lives, and the traditional custodians that continue their connection and their care for this place. So I acknowledge on our behalf that we are on the land of the Gadigal people and we pay respect to their ancestors and the traditional custodians today.

My name's Robyn Quiggan, I am Wiradjuri, I'm a guest here on Gadigal country, I know that, I am really comfortable with that and I think that's a good place for all of us to start—that we are guests on this country. My country, where I am not a guest, where I am descended from, is about eight hours west of here. It's Wiradjuri country, on the western part of Wiradjuri, on the Lachlan River and the borders of Ngiyampaa and going over to Barkindji country.

We have many people online and we welcome those of you that are online and invite you to, in the chat, say where you're from. It seems very strange to be looking out at all of you speaking to the people online, but never mind, you know, from all the years now on Zoom, you're all familiar with that. And also, for those of you who want to use the question function, you just need to use Slido. They tell me I'm a complete novice when it comes to that, but I think probably many of you aren't. It'll also be in the chat and I think there'll be some way for you to do that that I'm not aware of. But please, we welcome questions as we go along.

I want to just speak to Aunty Glenda's remarks and follow on from her powerful remarks. This is a really important conversation that we're having, that we will, when we hear from Dr Summer May Finlay later today, on how we engage with each other. And harking back to some of the things that Aunty's just spoken about, we do at UTS—our setting is for self-determination. That is our policy setting set by my predecessors, Distinguished Professor Larissa Behrendt, who's still here working, Professor Michael McDaniel, who was in my job previously, and others, as Aunty's mentioned, others here who at Jumbunna over years and many, you know, working with Indigenous leadership here.

Our setting is self-determination and we do give meaning to that here at UTS. And that means that we get to do things in a way that we believe in as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. And I want to just pause, going back to Aunty's comments about where we are in relation to child removal and absolutely reflecting on Sorry Day. Sorry Day was so hard fought for. When Aunty said she was part of a little team that put it together, you know, this was a—for those of you that remember, it was a national movement to try and get this country to acknowledge the results of the national inquiry that the first Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner in the Australian Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission, as it then was, set up to ask to inquire into what had happened in relation to child removal.

And it shocked the country. For those of you that remember, it will have shocked you. It shocked the nation. And unfortunately, the government of the day absolutely tried to shut it down. So the fight to get these things heard and to keep these things heard is so important. And it really takes a lot of effort for us and for those of you who work with us. I want to really acknowledge people like Aunty Glenda and those who fought that fight.

I want to acknowledge as well, you know, we use the term settler today. This country was not settled. This country was fought for. There was a war to take this country. My people, Aunty Glenda's people, the other Aboriginal people in the room today—our ancestors fought for this country. They fought to keep their children, to not have them removed. They fought to keep their country. They fought to keep access to food. They fought not to be shoved onto missions and fed flour and bully beef and then wonder why we have such poor health. They fought to stay in their place.

And this is a very sophisticated conversation that we are having today about how to work together. But we have to come from that place of truth that this country was taken by violence. And we think that it's over. However, there is a smouldering of that violence that emerges every so often. When Mr Gundy was shot in his bed, in my living memory, when I was a younger person less than a mile from here, probably. When Kumanjayi Walker was shot in his bed a couple of years ago by police, by Northern Territory police, with a culture that even shocked ICAC—a racist culture that shocked our Independent Commission Against Corruption.

When our people are still shot in our beds, when our children are still being removed, we need to start from that place of honesty in these conversations. And I think that we'll—I know Summer will speak to how we do that. And I think we need to be really honest about that. And I was thinking on the way in about honesty. Honesty—truth-telling was part of the Uluru Statement. And I was thinking, you know, we shouldn't have to ask for truth-telling. And I was thinking, if you even look at the person sitting next to you, or you think about your children, your partner, your parents, your family, it's baseline expectation that we tell each other the truth. We divorce over that stuff going wrong. We leave over that stuff going wrong. It is very baseline. It's a very bottom-line kind of expectation.

So I think when we think about how we reconcile today, how we come to peace in this nation, we have to really be clear it's not a nice to have. It's a really fundamental piece about how we come to terms with the war in this country. So that will be really—I want to set that context for us for the conversation we'll have today with our speakers.

And we have fabulous speakers. We have, as I said, Dr Summer May Finlay from the University of Wollongong, who will give us a keynote address, Professor Lyndon Coombs, Professor Chris Cunneen, and Dr Elaine Laforteza, who will join us in a discussion in a moment. But first, I'd like to introduce to you our Provost and Senior Vice-President, Professor Vicki Chen, to offer some opening remarks today.

And I do, and I want to go back to the beginning of my remarks, which is to say that UTS does give meaning to self-determination, and that's a wonderful place to be in this institution. Thank you, Vicki. Thanks.

Well, welcome, and thank you, Robyn, and thank you, Aunty Glenda, for your Acknowledgement of Country and also for your heartfelt introduction, both of you. I too would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. It is on their land that the campus now stands and always has and always will. I'd like to pay my respects to Elders, both past, present and emerging, acknowledging them as traditional custodians of knowledge for this land.

It's a real pleasure to be here today, celebrating this important week in Australia's calendar. National Reconciliation Week provides an opportunity for all Australians to renew their commitment to fighting for justice and rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. The theme for this year, Now More Than Ever, is a reminder of the urgency of this fight. It calls on each of us to reflect on our role and take concrete steps toward reconciliation. Now is the time for action, for calling out racism, for truth-telling, which involves acknowledging and understanding the full history of our country and ensuring Indigenous representation in all spaces, from classrooms to boardrooms.

At UTS, we are very proud of our long history of leadership in these areas of Indigenous education and research. We embed Indigenous content, perspectives, knowledge and methodology in our research, our teaching and learning. We're sector leaders in these areas. We have a deep commitment to supporting First Nations peoples' sovereignty and right to self-determination, as Robyn spoke so feelingly about. In all areas, we are led by the expertise of our stellar Indigenous colleagues. Our colleagues are leaders in their field, championing UTS's excellence in Indigenous research and teaching and learning and translating academic outcomes to tangible benefits for individuals and communities.

Our work on public policy on a whole range of fronts is incredible. Our research through Jumbunna Institute of Indigenous Education and Research has an internationally acknowledged record of research output and Indigenous advocacy, and the research team is one of the few in the country that engages in inquiry and social advocacy based on conversation with the community across all of Australia and internationally. It's these conversations between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians that must occur for us to close the gap in education, health care, employment and economic participation.

Today, we'll hear from Dr Summer May Finlay on how we can progress in our work to move from tokenism to allyship to advocacy. Allyship and advocacy are more than just words. They're necessary actions to create real and lasting change. And after Dr Finlay's keynote, our esteemed panellists will unpack these themes a bit further in discussion and answer your questions. And we're delighted to have such a strong turnout, not just here in this audience but also online, as we engage in this vital conversation. So thank you very much, and thank you for coming here today.

Thank you, Vicki. And I think all of us who work in the university are really alert to the importance in this kind of conversation of education and research. So these are really important places, locations, to be holding these kinds of discussions and for them to be so supported. So thank you, Vicki, for those remarks.

I'd like to now introduce to you our keynote speaker, Dr Summer Finlay. Come on up. Dr Summer Finlay is a Yorta Yorta woman who grew up on Awabakal country, West Lake Macquarie, and is a passionate advocate for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Her passion is what has driven her to work in a number of public health fields, including social marketing, communications, research and policy. She has worked for a range of organisations in the Aboriginal community-controlled health, not-for-profit, university and for-profit sectors. She's currently Senior Lecturer at the University of Wollongong. Please welcome Summer. Thank you.

Thank you. Can I just say thank you to Aunty Glenda for that welcome, and nothing is too radical when it comes to our kids. Thank you for coming, and thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. It is an absolute pleasure to be talking on this topic. It's something I'm really passionate about. Working with and for mob is also meaning bringing people along with us, and on that journey is something that different people are at. And can I just say thanks to all the mob that are here today and online. I see a lot of familiar faces. I see a lot of support, and thank you for wearing your 'We Support the Uluru Statement'. So let's have a frank talk.

But before we do, I also am a visitor on this country as a Yorta Yorta woman. This is Gadigal country, and I am eternally grateful for those that have looked after this country and those that continue to look after it.

Robyn did an introduction. I am a bunch of things. I'm an academic, but that is not what I am first. I'm a mum, I'm an auntie, I'm a sister, I'm a daughter. I do a whole bunch of things in that capacity, and then I work in the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander academic space, and I do that for our community. While that is still useful, I will still be there.

So, as I said, Yorta Yorta—for those that don't know, you can see it's a little tiny country in Victoria. But I grew up on Awabakal Worimi country, beautiful Lake Macquarie. I like just to put this photo in there because it is a gorgeous place to live and grow up, and I am grateful for that country and my experiences there.

So, I know, I can't help but actually say, so these are my two kids. I have a nine-month-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old. I came to have kids later in life, and I always said I was working for my future children to make a better life for them. It is really important that we continue the work beyond The Voice last year, and that work needs to continue. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in a moment, but these kids drive me now. People thought I was driven before, they drive me now. And can I say, she picked that outfit herself. I love black, and I love the fact that she does too, and she loves pink.

And this is my partner. Again, wouldn't be standing here and able to do this without him or my family. So part of the reason why I put these photos up as well is for anyone that's ever worked in the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander anything, what you hear is all the really negative statistics about us. We are not the sum total of those negative statistics. This is who we are. You read in the media, you read the negativity. We are these people that you see. Now, those statistics touch our lives. Across all of the family that I have, there is probably someone who represents everything that you will read about, you will talk about, that you will research. But this is what we are.

And again, honouring, I need to honour that we're all different. Every single person in this photo is an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander person. We are all different. It does not matter where you come from, we're still connected through our history, our culture, and unfortunately, our politics.

So moving from safe to brave was a theme that came out in 2021. And to be honest with you, I still feel really strongly about this theme. Because last year, we were not brave as a country. We were absolutely not brave. Whether you supported the Uluru Statement, sorry, if you supported the Uluru Statement but didn't support the Voice, you were not brave. If you didn't have a sign, and you didn't have a sticker, and you didn't have a T-shirt, and you didn't talk to your friends, you didn't talk to family, you were not brave. This is the work that needs to happen, and this is the work we continue to do.

State of reconciliation. We need people to be brave, and part of that is being uncomfortable. We sit in our lives, we sit in our offices, and for non-Indigenous people, you can actually avoid being uncomfortable. As Aboriginal people, we are always uncomfortable. We don't have the luxury of not fighting. We don't have the luxury of not advocating, because we are who we are, and our families are the reasons why we do it. So as non-Indigenous people, I always ask you to get uncomfortable, and if you're comfortable, you're not there supporting us.

When we talk about tokenist, ally and accomplice, I just want to share a story with you about how those two articles came about. For those that don't know, I wrote two articles, one for NITV and one got published in Croakey Health Media. The NITV one, they asked me to do an article about cultural appropriation, and I realised I couldn't write that article until I had written the article about how to be an ally, because that's actually what is at the crux of it—where is it that you go from being an ally to stepping over the line, and as I put it in the article, being on the shit list because you've overstepped.

That article was not necessarily well received by NITV. They were questioning some of the comments and the seven lists in there. One of them, don't speak on behalf of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I had to justify it, which I was quite surprised by. But the article got published, which was great, and I am grateful for NITV for doing that.

The other article, the one that got published in Croakey Health Media, almost never saw the light of day. So ABC asked me to write that article. They wanted an article similar to the one that I had written for NITV. They edited it, and on the day it was to be published, they refused to publish it. It was too radical. Luckily enough, Croakey Health Media—Melissa Sweet—she published it. I've never actually outed ABC publicly about it, but I think we need to, particularly after last year's referendum. Let's be honest. ABC was not brave. They were absolutely not brave. But I am really grateful for Croakey Health Media for publishing it.

And when I think about this topic, I think about all of the things that I want to see in my life, all of the things that I don't want my kids to experience. I was sitting down, sitting next to Lyndon and wondering which story I'd be telling, and I have to say, now you've got kids, you do have a different perspective. The first time I was called an 'Abo', I was eight. It was in a private school, a lovely school, and the principal said, "It's just a name," without understanding the context. I can't imagine my kids having to experience that.

So I'm going to take you through some things that the second article goes through, and some of them are going to seem really basic, but lots of people are still getting them wrong. Not everybody. Lots of people are still getting them wrong, which is why I still have to give this presentation.

Microaggressions. We talk about them a lot. A lot of people understand them, some people don't. And that's cool. What are they? They're the little things that people do that undermine us, as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, or anyone from a different background, or have a different experience. It's basically like death by a thousand cuts. And some of us will actually deal better than others, and you never know what someone's tolerance or resilience is like. So these are the little things that people say and do, and things that I've experienced.

Now, I hate it—and this happens a lot less, I have to say—"What part Aboriginal are you?" I usually say, "My arse and my eyes." Yeah. Still get this one: "You don't look Aboriginal." In the day of fake tan, I get that a lot more. "You're so pretty for an Aboriginal person." And this one is said more often than I would like, particularly since I got that 'Doctor' in front of my name: "Haven't you done well for yourself?" I think probably every Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander person in this room, or any woman of colour in particular, has probably heard these things before. Every person of colour. "Haven't you done well for yourself?" The low expectations that we have of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in this country are astounding.

My mum got a job at the local high school as a career and transitions officer. And when it got advertised—this was like 15 years ago, and it was the school I went to—the career and transition officer was specifically for work or for TAFE. And I said to Mum, "No, you go in there and tell them we can go to university too." Fifteen years ago, it was not expected that our kids would go to uni.

So here are some of the basics. And again, some of you probably do these things already, and some of you might need a little reminder. Get the terminology right. I never want to hear the word 'ATSI' again, or the acronym. People ask me why I make such a big deal about little things like capitalising the 'I' on Indigenous, not using ATSI, recognising the Country. And they're like, "But it's such a small thing. Why do you make such a big deal about it?" Because if you can't get the little things right, you can't be trusted to get anything right in our space.

Know the difference between a Welcome to Country and an Acknowledgement, and don't ask the black staff to do an Acknowledgement of Country. Do an Acknowledgement. It is important, and I actually suggest to people they personalise it. We all have a connection to Country, whether or not we're actually from the country we're standing on. This is Country that nourishes us, and it's important that we acknowledge it as well.

We understand that not all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are the same. That slide I put up before, where every person is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander, is just a gentle reminder. It does not matter where you come from, what you look like, you are black. And sometimes we actually need reminding of that as well, when we've been undermined for so long, and particularly our fair-skinned members of our community, which my kids will be part of—my little blondie. But we're not all the same, we don't have the same history, and not a single Aboriginal person is the fountain of all knowledge.

I think about that when I think about research, right? You get one Aboriginal person on an Aboriginal project, and all of a sudden that person's meant to be the fountain of all knowledge. So that's kind of the basics that I would like to see, just generally. I wish I never had to mention the terminology one. Can I just say, ever again, that would be great. If I could cross that one off my list, that would be a great start.

A little more than basic—preference Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's voices. That is really important. So don't speak on our behalf. The blackness doesn't rub off in the vicinity of us, so let us speak for ourselves. Our voices were not allowed to be spoken, we were not allowed to speak for ourselves. My grandma grew up on a mission, Cummeragunja. My mum is someone who is very passionate about community, but it's my generation which can stand here, and the subsequent generations.

Always, always engage Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people on topics, policies or programs that impact us. I know that sounds like an obvious thing, but it still doesn't happen. I'm a co-chair on the AHMRC Ethics Committee, and the amount of ethics applications that we get in that are specifically focusing on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, or a sub-study that's quite significant, engaging with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, and there's not a single Aboriginal person on these projects. And then they tell us they can't find one.

And call out racism. That was mentioned before. It's still not happening. It's still not happening. If you're at a pub, at a barbecue, if it's family—you know how I talked about being uncomfortable? Be uncomfortable, call it out. It's really important for us, as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, that we see that people will do this, that we don't have to carry this load. Aunty said she doesn't need to be reconciled, and I don't believe I do either. And I heard Janine Mohamed say once, you know, it's the 97% that need to lift their game and pull their weight. And honestly, that is what needs to happen.

So when we're thinking about next steps, what are the big things then we ask of people? I've been reflecting on this first one a lot recently. The do-gooders, the good white people, the ones that think they've got it all covered and know what to do for us, they go it alone. This is the epic mistake that they make, where you sit there and you think that you know better than an Aboriginal person. And I've had that recently—not for me personally, but one of my colleagues has experienced a situation, as an Aboriginal person, where all the non-Aboriginal people think they know better than her about Aboriginal stuff. That is not okay.

Stand by us, even when the going's tough, which you clearly do with your Uluru Statement T-shirt. I'm picking on you, sorry. And the other thing is, know that you won't necessarily be part of the conversations. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people just need sometimes space to have our own conversations, to have our time to figure stuff out. And let us have that time.

I was chatting to Lyndon. I had my baby in September, so just before the referendum, and I was in the ACT and I was watching the vote with dread, with absolute dread. After that, it took me a long time to even want to talk about the Voice, to look people in the eye. Luckily enough, I was a member for Cunningham, which did vote yes. So I go home and I walk around my town knowing that the majority of people, at least in the town I lived in, voted yes. But people wanted to talk about the Voice afterwards, dissect it. For a lot of us, we weren't ready. We wanted to have our own conversations internally about this, and this happens as well in anything that we do in our workplaces. Sometimes Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people just need to hash it out ourselves and figure out what we want before we can talk about it publicly.

And the other thing I think is really important is understand that we won't always agree with you. So even as an ally or an accomplice, working with us, you think you've got it sorted, you know where the boundaries are, you know what's needed, but we just might not agree with you. And that's okay. That doesn't mean you pack your bags and you go home. It means you pick yourself back up and you stand with us. And we need to stand together now. Now more than ever is a fantastic theme for this year.

We need to do more in this country, and we cannot do it by ourselves as 3% of the population. It just is not going to happen. So we need everybody to lift their game and do more. And that might feel like we're asking a lot of you, but as I said before, we don't have the luxury of opting out. We don't have the luxury of saying not today, or I'm going to take six months off, or I'm going to do something else. Every single day is a day that we are Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, and we have every single day more fights to fight. So we need you to help us do that.

I just want to finish up by saying that I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be able to stand here and talk about this, but I hope in 10, 20 years' time, my girls—particularly my oldest, I think she is likely to be the one that would stand on stage—but I hope she doesn't have to. Someone asked me once what I wanted. What do you want from all of this? It was a really loaded question. And I was like, I just want to be Aboriginal. I just want to be Aboriginal. I want to walk down the street, I want to do my job, and I just want to be.

And that being is ultimately what I think all of us would like—not to have to answer the questions, not to have to fight, but to have our cultures celebrated, acknowledged and respected in a way that makes us feel proud of this country. And can I tell you, last year I was not proud. Sitting there watching the count, I was not proud. Reading the articles afterwards, I was not proud. I'd really like to be proud of the country that we now know as Australia in its totality.

Thank you. And all I'm going to say is don't whitewash. Whitewashing is when allies and accomplices drown out the voices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Well-meaning, but please don't do that. This is me. Thank you.

Thank you again to Summer for a great address. And I'll invite you to just take a seat over there if you're okay with that while I introduce everyone else. Can we just give Summer another round of applause?

[Panel introductions and discussion continue. For the full panel discussion, Q&A, and closing remarks, please refer to the full transcript above.]