Recording: Cultivating an anti-racist campus culture

Descriptive transcript

Good morning, everyone. My name is Amy Persson and I'm the Interim Pro Vice-Chancellor of Social Justice and Inclusion at UTS. Thank you so much to all of you who are here with us in the room today, and to the many hundreds of you who are also joining us online as we come together as part of UTS's 2024 Inclusion Festival to talk about the role of universities in combating racism on our campuses and in our communities.

To begin our event, I'd like to introduce Aunty Glendra Stubbs, UTS Elder in Residence, who will provide an Acknowledgement of Country. Please welcome Aunty. [Applause. Cheering. Aunty Glendra walks to the lectern.]

AUNTY GLENDRA STUBBS: I think I'm here with my fan club! Oh gosh, is Aunty going to be lost for words for the first time in her life? Oh, no. Right. Welcome, everyone, on this bleak day. When I think of bleak, I think of 'Bleak Heath', where no one ever wanted to live and now everyone wants to live there because it's really expensive to have a little one-bedroom shack anywhere, isn't it?

So I'd like to acknowledge we're on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and say thanks for allowing me to be here. I want to thank Elders past, present and especially our young ones. They are our future. They are our heart. They are our life and they are what we are going to leave to them. So we need to make sure it's a decent place to leave.

I just want to say: saying the words 'anti-racism' is a big deal in this country because I don't think this country wants to believe it's racist. But as someone who, well, as a lot of people who have suffered racism in this country, it is a big deal. It damages your soul, it dents your identity and it makes you feel unworthy. And we are all worthy.

So there's still a lot to do but I think this is a start, to say the words, because I don't think we've said the words enough. We just sort of patter around it and don't say the words. And I'm really proud of UTS for saying this, for standing up and for making a difference, because we've still got a long way to go.

I picked this up—I think it was Paul Gray's—and I thought, 'Ending the ongoing Stolen Generation.' The Stolen Generation hasn't ended. It's actually got worse. 50% of the kids in care in this state are our kids, and we're 3% of the population. We aren't bad parents but we just need a leg up sometimes, and that leg up comes from not having the same opportunities with housing and land and education. And UTS does a great job in closing the gap.

So I could go on forever because this is, you know, 43 years I've been doing this with darling Larissa's dad, who was one of the founding members of Link Up. And then I want to give a shout out to her man too because he was the Attorney-General who was brave enough to do the Bringing Them Home report. So that was the catalyst for this country to stand up and have a look at what it's done and not to let it happen again. Well, sadly it is happening again so we all need to rally round because the only way things seem to take attention is if you put a dollar sign on it.

Well, it costs $63,000 a year to keep a kid in care and if the housing is the issue, in three years, you'd own a house in Wayland. I feel like I'm doing a lecture now but I don't want to. I just want people to, when they see a damaged Aboriginal person, just don't think, 'Oh, they're a drunk' or something. Just look at the back story to our history in this country.

So thank you for this opportunity. Sorry if I put a dampener on it, but the shining light is our dear Larissa and her dear man and the rest of the mob that are onside. Elaine, I have forgotten your name now. Oh, Kylie. So I am old and I'm allowed to forget, apparently someone said that. But thank you all for coming because it's really important because you will go and you'll spread this word to another 10 people and so there's hundreds of people that will be talking about anti-racism and it's really a good conversation to have.

So, muah, muah, muah. [Aunty blows kisses. Applause.] Dropped the stick! Did I do an Acknowledgement?

INTERIM PRO VICE-CHANCELLOR AMY PERSSON: I think you did it in spirit. Thank you so much. And I'm also going to acknowledge that we're on the traditional lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and pay my respect to Elders past and present and acknowledge that this land was never ceded. This always was, this always will be Aboriginal land.

I don't want to start on a downer either, Aunty Glendra, but we are all, I think, in this room aware that there are significant societal challenges and divisions playing out here in Australia and across the world. These include racism and inequality, rising Islamophobia and antisemitism, and the ongoing injustices against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

Every day, systemic racism undermines Indigenous leadership and self-determination, holding Australia back from reaching its full potential. From those invasive and persistent acts comes a need for constant conversations and collective action: changes in laws and policies, but also shifts in society's thinking and tolerance for people whose views differ from our own.

As a trusted institution, UTS is responsible for holding space for these conversations and supporting our diverse community of staff and students. And our community is indeed gloriously diverse. About 40% of UTS students this year were born outside Australia and speak a language other than English. Nearly 1% of students and 1.6% of staff identify as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander, and while we absolutely want those numbers to increase, we should acknowledge, and we are proud of the fact, that we have the largest Indigenous Professoriate in Australia, which contributes to a robust Indigenous research environment.

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the work of the Jumbunna Institute of Indigenous Education and Research at UTS, which has a long history of research and advocacy on the effects of racism in Australia and its impacts on First Nations communities. This includes recently delivering the Call It Out Register, a collaboration with the National Justice Project, that offers an Indigenous-controlled reporting platform, removing many of the usual barriers that inhibit reporting of racism; the Garri Yala Speak the Truth and Gendered Insights reports to address the gap in Indigenous employment, in partnership with the Diversity Council of Australia. And as Aunty said, ongoing advocacy and work to stop the removal of First Nations children from their families, communities and culture, happening at rates higher today than at any other time in Australian history. This is a national shame.

The diversity of our university community is one of our great strengths. Our staff and students bring to campus a range of perspectives and deeply held beliefs about social issues and political matters. As a university, we must respect these perspectives and find ways to accommodate and encourage the expression of differing views and experiences. Academic freedom is a key principle for universities, alongside freedom of speech. However, there are clear boundaries concerning racism and hate speech. And we expect all members of our community to treat each other with respect, kindness and care and that's part of, I hope, what we're trying to do today, to allow a space for difficult and at times confronting conversations but treating ourselves, our fellow panellists, our fellow audience members, with respect, kindness and care.

I commend the Australian Human Rights Commission and Race Discrimination Commissioner Sivaraman, whom I will introduce shortly, for announcing a groundbreaking study aimed at better understanding and addressing the dangerous prevalence of racism in Australian universities. The study was a recommendation in the Australian Universities Accord Final Report, which we fully support. It will have a strong focus on First Nations students and staff, a priority as we advance anti-racism efforts in Australia.

We look forward to working with the Human Rights Commission and the Commissioner on this study. I'd now like to introduce Commissioner Sivaraman, who I invite to join me on stage. The Commissioner commenced as Australia's Race Discrimination Commissioner in March 2024. His role is to promote equality between people of different backgrounds, conduct research and educational programs to combat racial discrimination and protect people from unfair treatment or vilification based on their race, colour, descent, visa status or national or ethnic origin.

Prior to becoming Commissioner, Mr Sivaraman was Principal Lawyer with Maurice Blackburn, the Chair of Multicultural Australia and a member of the Queensland Multicultural Advisory Council. After his keynote, the Commissioner will join a panel discussion led by Dr Elaine Laforteza on UTS's ongoing efforts to promote anti-racism, both on and off campus, and the essential steps universities must take to create an inclusive environment for all.

Welcome, Commissioner Sivaraman. [Applause.]

COMMISSIONER SIVARAMAN: Thank you very much for that very warm welcome and thank you to UTS for the opportunity to speak today. I'd also like to thank my adviser Naz Jacobs, who helped me with this speech today.

Thank you very much, Aunty Glendra, for that wonderful Welcome. It was a clear-eyed Welcome as well, recognising that however far we've gone, we've got so much further to go. I'd also like to begin by acknowledging that I speak to you on the unceded lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and pay my deep respects to Elders past, present and emerging, and I'd like to extend those respects to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are here today.

As I'm speaking to you at a university, I think we should acknowledge that the ways of knowing, being and doing of First Nations people, which stretches back tens of thousands of years, is the foundation of this country.

We just heard that the UTS community is proudly diverse and, of course, many of you that are here today or listening online will bring a particular cultural heritage, experience, in some cases language, perhaps religion, and most undoubtedly, an understanding of the world. I want you to treasure that heritage. I want you to treasure that understanding. I want you to treasure that unique perspective that you have that is a product of everything that makes you, because it's that which makes the fabric of this university and this country prosperous and successful. It's also a true reflection of the history of this country.

To begin with, we have the oldest continuous culture in the world. Just a week ago, I was privileged to be at the Yothu Yindi Foundation's Garma Festival in remote Arnhem Land, with my colleague Katie Kiss, who is the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner. We heard from many amazing First Nations academics, activists, students, poets, artists and so many more. But what profoundly affected me, though, was the sense of power and resilience that I could feel around and through the land. It almost felt like it came up through the red dirt into my bones as I walked barefoot, something I haven't done for a very long time. I felt this as a power of a deep connection to country that had withstood invasion and shocking racism for centuries. It was also a power born of the generosity of the Yolngu people, who so graciously welcomed me and many others into their wisdom and their land.

That rich fabric of our society is a true reflection of First Nations people's deep connection over millennia to this country but is also a true reflection of the migration, the more recent migration, to this country. Makassan traders from the Sulawesi region of Indonesia began trading with Aboriginal people in the 18th century, and I discovered when I was with the Yolngu people that language has been imprinted into both cultures due to that trading. Words from the Makassarese language can still be found in Aboriginal language varieties in the northeast.

If we move a little bit further along in time, there were 12 Africans on the First Fleet. It's a little-known fact but it is true. During the 1800s, we had significant migration from China, Afghanistan, India, other places and despite huge pressures to assimilate, sometimes legislatively imposed, sometimes violently imposed, people descending from those groups, some people, have managed to retain their culture right until today. And if you're ever in Queensland or Brisbane, my home state, I'd recommend you get in touch with Janeth Deen, who maintains the Islamic Museum of Queensland. Her family descended back from about 110 years ago.

But there's a reason why this broader, richer recognition of history matters. It goes to our identity, and Aunty, you mentioned that. It's really important what you said about identity. I went to university more than two decades ago. Coming into here was a bit weird because I thought, God, it's been that long since I've been at a university, but anyway. I went to Macquarie University. And I remember when I started, it's more than two decades ago, but I remember being drawn to people of South Asian origin. There was the Indian Society, the Sri Lankan Society, probably lots of other societies. My recollection—and perhaps this has changed—is that the societies had a hell of a lot of focus on dance parties. Each university's Indian society would have a dance party and each one would try to outdo the other one. So I remember the word would be, 'UNSW Indian party is coming up. That's a good one.' 'USyd's coming up. That's a bit iffy.' 'Macquarie. Who wants to go all the way to North Ryde? No, thanks.' Perhaps it has all changed now. Perhaps UTS parties are the place to be.

But, more seriously, the real question is why did we all drift together? It's not even something I thought about until I started writing this speech for today, and Naz, my adviser, encouraged me to look at it. I think now, looking back, it's because starting university was daunting. It was a whole new world, a whole new way of learning, and you wanted to be around people that understood you, understood the way you were brought up, understood your cultural customs. You wanted to feel like you belonged. And university wasn't necessarily that place. Outside of the Indian clubs and societies, did it feel like a culturally safe place? Could you speak languages other than English in classes? Did you have a safe place to pray? Were your tutors educated in the various cultural backgrounds of their students? Could you wear traditional dress without feeling out of place? None of that was the case when I was at university. I assimilated to fit in. I had my Indian society. Outside of that I had to try and be like everyone else. And perhaps it's changed. I don't know. But I hope that the university racism study, which I'll come back to, will reveal something about this.

But what I'm describing in terms of feeling safe, feeling like you belong, feeling like you can be your whole self, your own sense of identity—I keep looking at Aunty Glendra because this is what she talked about—all of that is what is denied by structural racism, and universities are part of structures. But let me explain what I mean in terms of structural racism, and I think the starting point—and this is really important—structural racism isn't about race; it is about power and privilege. If you are white, it is about the power and privilege to know that the institutions around you were built by people like you, built for you, and privileged people like you. It is a power and the privilege to know that you do not have to diminish yourself in any way to access those systems.

I'll explain what I mean by this, and this is work that we have discovered in the preparation of the National Anti-Racism Framework. In our health systems, it is the power and privilege to know that when you see a doctor or go to a hospital, you'll be believed, that you won't be thought of as having higher pain thresholds, that you'll get a health outcome that's actually designed based on you. For some of our communities and the communities that I've spoken to, they don't even get past the basic threshold of being understood in hospitals and doctors' surgeries.

In education, throughout our consultation with the National Anti-Racism Framework, we heard stories of experiences of racism occurring as early as preschool, and that sadly won't be a surprise to many of you, but it permeates throughout the education system right up to the university level. Of course, whilst the university study recently announced, the Australian Human Rights Commission has done work that has shown experiences of racism going back in many different ways in the university sector, particularly for First Nations students and staff.

When it comes to the media, racism is the power and the privilege of looking at the media and always being represented, always being centred, and on commercial TV and radio, nearly always being the mouthpiece for news stories, current affairs, whereas for communities like mine and many others, communities of people of colour and Indigenous communities, you are either completely absent from commercial media or you're tokenised or you're demonised.

In the justice system, it is the power and privilege that when you see a police officer, your heart rate doesn't automatically quicken because you worry intensely about the next interaction you're going to have. Why is it that some races are so grossly overrepresented in the justice system? No race is inherently bad. That is as a result of the way structures and systems operate, to disenfranchise some.

In workplaces, many people in the communities I engage with ask me why is it so much more difficult for people of some racialised backgrounds to get employment in their chosen field? Why is it so hard to get overseas qualifications recognised? Does UTS recognise only some overseas degrees components? How does it pick and choose? I'm not sure. Does it have an anti-racist approach when doing so? When applying for jobs, how many of us know of or indeed ourselves have changed our names when we apply for jobs just to make sure that we overcome what we know will be racist barriers that are in place, and even if we do get jobs, why don't we progress to senior levels? When I look at the senior levels of corporations, boards, the public service, politics and, of course, universities, why do I see so few people of colour? And then to get to those positions, and this is important, to get to those positions, why do we need to shed ourselves of everything that makes us different? Our language, our religion, our culture, our dress, everything that makes us different but the colour of our skin, the one thing we cannot change, which ironically means we will still be the victims of racism.

That is how structural racism operates to diminish us, to reduce us, so that we can progress within the society that we are in or with the institutions with which we engage. To understand that, you have to have an understanding of racial literacy.

On an interpersonal level, racial literacy—what I mean by racial literacy is the way in which you perceive someone. When I walk into a room, someone will have a particular set of assumptions of me, just by looking at me or my name before they hear me speak. But, on a structural level, it is understanding how systems and institutions disadvantage people of some races that I have just described, in health, in education, in media, in workplaces. You have to remember that these institutions, these structures, often, including some universities, are created during colonial times and they were baked in during the White Australia policy. They are now, of course, meant to let everyone in, but structurally do they do that?

That is why we need universities and institutions to broadly commit to anti-racism, and I'm so pleased to see UTS name it. As I've said previously, you have to name the beast to slay it. You have to name racism to tackle it.

So often I see work on cultural diversity or multiculturalism or social cohesion, but not anti-racism. Progressing cultural and linguistic diversity doesn't deal with anti-racism. As a starting point, not everyone who is culturally and linguistically diverse suffers racism, and sometimes diversity and multiculturalism tolerates cultural difference but doesn't challenge an unjust society based on white supremacy. When those that are multicultural or they're non-white, it centres white power and it makes the non-white inferior. That is why it doesn't always challenge racism.

So, in my view, the path forward for diversity and inclusion must be paved with the concrete of anti-racism. UTS has stated that Social Justice and Inclusion are key to its mission and values. You have said you are committed to the economic, social and cultural prosperity of your community, our community—we're all part of the same community—and aim to ensure a just and equitable society. If you want to achieve those aims, you must take an anti-racist approach. You cannot be committed to the prosperity of a community if that community is diminished and reduced and doesn't have a whole sense of identity so as to succeed. That is, if your community doesn't feel culturally safe or understood, feels like it can't speak in language, feels that its qualifications aren't recognised, feels like it cannot prosper with its whole self without assimilating, then you have not ensured their prosperity. I truly believe that you're up for that challenge from what I have heard this morning and I'm really grateful to hear of your strong commitments to it.

I hope that in conducting the Australian Human Rights Commission's historic study into racism in universities we will find out more about the way in which racism operates, particularly in a structural way, and all forms of racism will be addressed in this project. I know that the recent cause for alarm or areas of focus have been antisemitism, Islamophobia, anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab racism recently seen on campuses, and that, of course, will be looked at, but we will be looking at systemic practices of racism and there is a particular focus on First Nations students and staff, which was the subject of a number of other recommendations of the Accord. And, Professor Behrendt, I congratulate you on the wonderful work that you and your co-authors did in preparing that report and those recommendations.

We will also look at the experiences of international students, which is a very significant aspect of the study, and we will be looking at the experiences of all negatively racialised communities in universities, and not just students but also staff and whether staff are prevented from progressing because of systemic racism.

As I mentioned, the study implements part of a key recommendation from the Australian Universities Accord Final Report. It's intended to be the first step in the design and development of a national longitudinal approach to measuring and tackling racism in the tertiary sector. It also follows more than 20 years of research by the Australian Human Rights Commission and other organisations that we've worked with which have recommended a comprehensive examination of systemic racist practices and behaviours at universities and some of those previous projects and research that was conducted by the Commission highlighted the racism endured by Arab and Muslim students following the 9/11 attacks, the victimisation and exploitation of international students during the pandemic, and the experiences of First Nations students and staff who are grossly underrepresented and have often sadly reported feeling culturally unsafe in the university environment. All of these will be points of focus in the study, but the underlying issue is why is it when there are ruptures in our society does the bile of racism so easily spill out? Why structurally does that happen and what do we need to change?

The approach of the study will be similar to the Australian Human Rights Commission's landmark Change the Course, a 2017 report into sexual assault and harassment at Australian universities. That used a trauma-informed approach and it will hear about the lived experiences of people of different backgrounds and beliefs. People's testimonies will be anonymous and ensuring their welfare will be a key priority. Additional research will be undertaken to assess structural racial barriers.

We're only in the early phase of our planning and approach to the study, determining the scope and working to define parameters, objectives and deliverables, but it's important that we do this work and it is important and it is so heartening to hear UTS commit to it and I truly hope others follow your lead and work collaboratively with us and also implement any subsequent recommendations. That is important because all of us here have an important role in creating a stronger and more inclusive society that begins with honesty, a willingness to hear the voices of those that have been negatively racialised. If we start from that platform, I really hope that working together we can create a more prosperous community and a just and equitable society.

Thank you. [Applause.]

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[Dr Elaine Laforteza stands at a lectern, adjusting the microphone.] Just a little bit of height adjustment, as you can see, so we'll make way for that. But hello, everyone.

Firstly, I do want to say thank you so much to Giridharan for your insightful and incisive keynote today. The way that you mapped out how privilege works from a systemic level and the rich history that we have as a culturally diverse nation is really significant. So I'm so thankful that you're here today and that we're having this discussion at UTS.

Also, the Australian Human Rights Commission study to ask students and staff about their experiences of racism is highly significant and personally and professionally really exciting for me. I think we all know in this room what gets measured matters and what matters gets done. So it's getting attention, it's getting leverage, it's getting legitimacy. And together, I think everyone said it so beautifully, together we are stronger. So I would really like us to think about that and think about it moving forwards as well.

By way of introduction, yes, it might look like who's this random person up on the lectern now who has to adjust the microphone? It is me. I'm Dr Elaine Laforteza, and I'm the Cultural Diversity Project Officer here at UTS, and I'll be moderating today's discussion.

To begin, I would like to acknowledge that we are on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and I would like to pay my respects to Elders past and present, and to thank Aunty Glenda in particular for your beautiful Welcome to Country. She's amazing. Okay, I'm fangirling now, but I could do this for the whole event.

I would also like to pay my respects and acknowledge any First Nations person joining us here today on campus and also online. I would also like to acknowledge that as a non-Indigenous migrant to this country, I have accrued a whole host of privileges based on the ongoing dispossession of Indigenous sovereignty. So I would like to acknowledge my own commitment to continuous learning, continuous listening, and continuous unlearning, actually, to support decolonising work, and I'm so glad that I have a place like UTS that encourages and supports this kind of work.

I would also like to flag that today's discussion may include topics that are upsetting or triggering, and if at any time you feel overwhelmed or distressed, please feel free to take a break. You can step away from the event, talk to someone you trust, and on the Zoom chat, you'll also see the list of services and resources that you can access, or if you're here today on campus, you can scan the QR code and that same list of resources will show up.

So showing up, speaking of, to acknowledge the impact of racism is no small thing, and we have an important and ever-timely discussion today at UTS about the role of universities, and in particular, UTS, to actively drive anti-racism efforts on campus and off campus as well, because obviously, we don't just exist in a bubble.

At UTS, we have undertaken pilot sampling of asking staff and students who identify as coming from a culturally and racially marginalised background about their experiences of cultural diversity and race on campus, and here at UTS, we are ready to be actively involved in this Australian Human Rights Commission study and leverage our learnings from our experiences to support this, because our community stories have really helped to shape, to inform the development of the UTS Cultural Diversity and Anti-Racism Action Plan. That's a mouthful.

So we have a cool acronym, the CEDAR, because one, UTS loves a good acronym, and two, we want to plant the seeds, till the soil, grow this CEDAR together. So many planting metaphors. If people could clap that, I'd be... Yes, thank you. And hopefully, you can take that with you, because that's all my planting metaphors for the year. But we aim to cultivate this CEDAR together. It is currently in the works, and we're working to launching that very soon.

So joining myself and Giridharan on the panel, and I will make my way there as well. Let me just pretend I'm not doing any of this, just awkward sitting there. Hello again. Now I'm on a chair.

And joining me on the other chairs are Distinguished Professor Larissa Behrendt AO, the Laureate Fellow at the Jumbunna Indigenous House of Learning at UTS. She has helped shape Indigenous research and strategy at the university. She's also a lawyer, broadcaster, and award-winning author, director, and filmmaker. Please let's give her a raucous round of applause.

I could keep going, honestly, like chapter one about all our panellists, but that would be the whole event. On our panel, we also have Professor Kylie Readman, UTS's Deputy Vice-Chancellor and Vice-President, Education and Students. She is responsible for overseeing UTS's key priorities in teaching, learning, and the student experience. Again, a very warm round of applause.

Speaking of student experiences, we have a fabulous student rep on the panel as well with Salma El Mubasher, who is the Ethnocultural Officer at the Ethnocultural Collective, a part of the UTS Students Association, advocating for spaces for UTS students who identify as Black, Indigenous, or as a person of colour to connect and organise together. Please let's give her a massive round of applause.

Sitting next to me is Glenn Babington, who is UTS's Chief Operating Officer and Vice-President, and is responsible—okay, wait for it, everyone—he is responsible for no small things: for the university's finance, marketing, communications, property, IT, HR, and legal functions, as well as the Data Analytics and Insights Unit. It's a pleasure to have you, Glenn. Thank you for being here.

Also on our panel, we have Professor Michael Blumenstein, who is currently the Deputy Dean, Research and Innovation, in the Faculty of Engineering and IT, which is UTS's largest and most culturally diverse faculty. Thank you for being here, Michael.

So you can see we have a jam-packed session today, and thank you for clapping everyone, because honestly, showing up to speak even about anti-racism, to call it out, is no small thing. So I feel like everyone here deserves the claps and the support, because again, together we are stronger.

We have given everyone the opportunity to ask questions as well. You can do so via Slido. Please go to the link that you see on the slides, that you will see on the slides. Yes, you can see them right now, that's perfect. On Slido, you can upvote questions that others have asked, and please do try to keep the questions relevant to the topics we're discussing today.

So to kick off our discussion, my first question is to Larissa. Thank you, Larissa. So Larissa, UTS has a commitment to First Nations self-determination. Could you tell us what that means, and how an institution like a university plays a role in supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's rights to self-determination?

[Larissa Behrendt speaks.] Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm actually filling in for Robynne Quiggin, so I would like to just do one thing that we do to acknowledge First Nations self-determination, and that's just to acknowledge Country. [Speaks in traditional language.] And also acknowledging Robynne Quiggin, who's not here, but her Wiradjuri ancestry, and paying respects to Gadigal, who've kept culture and storytelling strong, and of course, deepest respect to the cultural leadership, wisdom, and big heart of our Aunty Glenda, who's an important part of our community.

So as I'm filling in for Robynne, she sent me some notes, and she gave a very long account of the history of self-determination under international law, but I'm going to take a slightly different approach, because although I'm stepping in for her, I am a Black woman with my own thoughts. What I would encapsulate with that is that we do have a tradition of this principle under international law, which was about the right to decide and have control over one's destiny, and to have that done with respect.

This was obviously a concept that was developed between states, and very importantly, through the work that led to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, there's a very strong account of what that means from a First Nations perspective.

But I would say even though it's an international principle, I think with the work that we do at Jumbunna, when we talk about aspiration in communities that we work with, the idea of being able to have a say and control over the things that affect us is still a very central part of political aspiration. So it's a human right, it's a political aspiration. But I would also add that there's actually a research base for this. There's a lot of research that shows that the more that we have First Nations people involved in identifying the problems within our community, in being involved in the design of the response to that, and being able to take a lead in that, that we actually have better socioeconomic results. We've certainly got good data around that in health, but that tends to be a research-based approach. So there's a range of reasons why self-determination is a really good framework for us to work in.

What that's meant at UTS is that we have created a cultural space. Jumbunna has a research arm, which I'll talk about in a little bit, in a second, but also to acknowledge a very big part of its role is creating that cultural space for our students and also for our staff as well. It goes to the point that the Commissioner made about how we need to find these spaces where we can be resilient to be able to do the cultural load, but I think for us importantly from a research point of view, having that space has meant we've been able to design research projects in collaboration with Aboriginal communities, which has meant that our research has been much more useful to those communities, that it's been a co-design process. That's meant a really fundamental shift that I think has improved the research that we do, that we don't go out and do research about Aboriginal people on issues that we think are interesting, but we respond to what the community thinks is important and see our roles not as people who come in and do research, but that we are research partners. A really big change in that thinking then is not just about rethinking what it means to be a university and operating in that space, but it also means that we have rethought other fundamental things about the university space and I would point to the concept of Indigenous cultural intellectual property, which of course intellectual property was something that's traditionally been held by universities and in this space working with Aboriginal communities, we've been able to kind of break that and say that any work that we do, that knowledge sits with Aboriginal research partners and that's been no small thing. So I think we've sort of seen those ways of trying to, within an institution, change through these sorts of processes. I think that's been a very self-determining thing.

Robynne would also want me to acknowledge that, quite rightly, our UTS Indigenous Education and Research Strategy, which has been ongoing, has put self-determination centrally and that's meant co-ownership and leadership with the senior UTS executive, including of course led by the Vice-Chancellor and the Provost, but also the DVCs and the Deans. This is really important because it means that not all the cultural load is pushed by Aboriginal people trying to bring people onto our agenda, but shares that responsibility for change. Part of that has also been the implementation of the Indigenous graduate attribute and, as Amy mentioned in her introduction, we do have the highest number of Indigenous professoriate and that's partly because we have a large cohort within the Jumbunna space, but also because we have Indigenous academics having leadership throughout the university in the faculties, which I would acknowledge is sometimes a much harder space to be in, but that's been a commitment to structural change. And just finally, of course, we've got the commitment to a national First Nations college.

[Applause]

[Elaine returns to the lectern.] Thank you so much, Larissa. It's great to know that this is all happening as we speak as well, and the importance of having those culturally safe spaces and recognising cultural load as well, because I think many of us in the room know that racism or the brunt of it, the responsibility to "fixing" it, in inverted commas, falls on people who are victims and survivors of racism, and that's a load that is very heavy.

In speaking about that as well, I do want to check in on Salma and talk about, if you can talk to us more about the Ethnocultural Collective as one of these safe spaces, and can you tell us firstly, what is it? What is the Ethnocultural Collective? How does the collective's work feed into the anti-racism space at UTS and why is it important to centre our students' voices in these kinds of discussions?

[Salma El Mubasher speaks.] Thank you, Elaine. Before I begin, I would firstly like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land we now stand on in my native tongue, which is Arabic. [Speaks in Arabic.]

To answer your question, the Ethnocultural Collective is a support space for BIPOC students. The collective provides a safe space for Black, Indigenous and people of colour at UTS to feel supported and validated during their time on campus. UTS has high rates of diversity, with in 2020, 47% speaking another language other than English at home and 48% being born overseas. This collective helps these students connect and build a sense of belonging between them through friendships, through discussions and making sure that these students feel validated in their feelings and essentially just not feeling alone and feeling like no matter how they may feel outside of that space, they can always have a space to come back to and speak about their experiences on campus.

[Applause]

[Elaine speaks.] Thanks, Salma. As I said, the burden or responsibility of racism often falls on the people hardest hit by it. I would like now to pivot to Glenn and ask this question about systems and operations and how UTS actually handles things like structural barriers. How does the university address structural barriers through our business processes or staff recruitment, retention and promotion pipelines? I know that's a big question.

[Glenn Babington speaks.] It's a very big question, but one that's very welcome. I think we might just start with understanding where we position ourselves as a university. Our vision is that we're a university of technology that is known for its global impact. If we're going to have global impact, we must be anti-racist. It is about, in terms of attracting diversity into our organisation, making sure our intent is clear from the top. We do that from policy, which is endorsed by our university council and our executive. We have our equity inclusion and respect policy, code of conduct for staff and students, rights and responsibilities policy. That's where we convey what our expectations are of behaviour and the way in which we operate. We have a page that is called Hiring Diversity. It calls out the importance about when we go and seek people to join and contribute to us, it is without fear and favour of their background. We start with that frame of mind right from the beginning in what we do. We make sure that when we look at our roles that we position, that they're not full of requirements and there's an opportunity for everyone to look at where they can contribute. We make sure and we'll seek to make sure that we're using diversity boards to actually reach out and make sure that opportunity is clear. Then when it comes in terms to the interviews, making sure that the people who are on the selection panels have had the requisite training in things such as unconscious bias and diversity. There's a new concept that we're bringing into both, it's not necessarily that new, but a concept we're bringing into both our recruitment interviews and also our promotion interviews, talking about and asking about people's life experiences and look at their contribution relative to their opportunity. That's recognising the richness that all of our backgrounds can provide in an organisation. The research is really loud and clear about organisations with greater diversity perform better. The environment we're trying to seek to create here in terms of diversity has been reflected in what Larissa spoke to in terms of Jumbunna and the fact that we've got a centre for social justice and inclusion to make sure that that is really clear, that that's a structural change that we've made to make sure we are committed to inculcating an environment that is clearly anti-racist. In the last year I've had the opportunity to be involved in a project called Arise, which is looking at and trying to understand the structural barriers to women and middle management in terms of structural barriers from their cultural or racially marginalised backgrounds. That's been fascinating. We're doing that in conjunction with the Diversity Council of Australia in international settlements and the Chief Women's Executive. One of the things that's really coming out, because it's a project that's actually focused on the voice of those women, is it's about having the conversation. That's the starting point and that's why we're investing in occasions like this to have the conversation. As Aunty Glenda said it's hard to talk about racism in Australia and we're determined to do that because we really do believe that diversity is important for the success of our university but also our society. I'm keen to take questions from there.

[Applause]

[Elaine speaks.] Thank you so much, Glenn. I also would like to thank Glenn for being the Executive Sponsor of the Arise program. That's another acronym and it's Realise Inspire Support. The E, does it stand for Elaine, which is my name? No, but equally important to energise. What Glenn is talking about as well, the importance of a project, an initiative like this, it does take that intersectional lens. Looking at culture, race and gender in terms of the workplace and partnering with organisations like Diversity Council Australia, for example, really amplifies our own work into enabling anti-racism on campus. I'm very thankful for that.

In terms of, okay, it is about racism, so more questions on structural barriers. Kylie, this one's for you. How is UTS working to remove barriers that have kept students from marginalised backgrounds accessing higher education?

[Professor Kylie Readman speaks.] Thanks, Elaine. I think it's important to acknowledge that some of the barriers have been established as a result, or all the barriers have been established as a result of the initial colonisation and takeover of this land, which is unceded land in this place, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. I think if we think about reconstruction, which is what's required here, we can't do that without thinking about that first. Recommendation 1 of the Accord talked about the objective of a national tertiary education system, so not just universities, but looking holistically. But it asked us to look beyond just ourselves and what we do, the fundamental work of the academic endeavour, which is research and education. It says, the objective of a national tertiary system is to underpin a strong, equitable and resilient democracy, and to drive national economic and social development and environmental sustainability. What I like about that is that it says we exist not for ourselves or by ourselves, but for a higher purpose. I think if we think about that, that should engage us in the anti-racism work that needs to happen in order for us as an institution within a system to take action with that intent in mind. I think that the Commissioner strongly pointed out the fact that systems and structures are much more likely to reproduce existing inequity rather than to reconstruct it. I think we must be relentlessly critical of ourselves and each other and with our university to make sure we don't do the things that reproduce marginalisation. Having a program like RISE is not just about enhancing diversity, it's making sure diverse voices are heard at every level of the university so that reconstruction can happen. It's not just so that we can report on the statistics, it's actually so that things can be different as a result. Without that, the likelihood of them being different is lessened, because people around tables in all levels of corporate Australia do not represent the kind of diversity that we want or require for anti-racism to even be part of the conversation. I agree with Aunty Glenda that it is a good conversation to have, a critical conversation to have if we want to start thinking about removing barriers. I think access is one thing, it's a first step. We need to be thinking all the time about how we enable access to education, recognising that people come to education and higher education with their own life load experience and stories of being excluded, potentially of being underserved, and other groups will come with not that story, so we don't start from an equal starting place when students start university. While access is step one and participation is important, when I think about equity, diversity and inclusion, also we can't not think about justice. Participation in higher education and ensuring that people have the tools that they need and the frameworks that they need and the support that they need to participate in education is really important. The key measure for me, the one I think we should hold ourselves to account for, is success, that we have success graduation rates, we have transition to employment rates that support the idea of reconstruction. I think that that's where we really need to start looking, not just at how many people enter higher education, enter UTS, but how many people are still there at the end. We know that different groups of students and different individuals will require different things, from very practical things like financial support to cultural things like safe spaces to operate within, but also the university, and this is what I mean about being relentlessly critical, we have to look at what we are doing to create barriers. I think many of them are unintentional, the consequences aren't visible to the people who've created them, but we have to look at those and we have to be brave enough to undo them. I think that is the work that will really make things different, because when people feel like they are in a space that truly encourages them, truly recognises them, is not forcing them to assimilate to the practices of that university, but is changing itself to make itself more attractive to a diverse group of students, then we are starting on the path that will lead us to being able to have really active anti-racism in place at the university.

[Applause]

[Elaine speaks.] Thank you so much, Kylie. So many points there I really resonated with, but especially your call to courage, the courage to care, the courage to be critical, which can be super hard, especially when you're immersed in a culture and a system which enables a certain mode of doing and being and belonging, which we know can be unjust, and your call for justice as well is highly, highly relevant there, so thank you so much, Kylie.

My next question is for Giridharan. Now your study with the Human Rights Commission aims to address all forms of racism, as you mentioned, including anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and anti-racism against First Nations peoples and so on. How will this study centre the voices of those affected and what positive impact do you envision for them? For us, really.

[Giridharan Sivaraman speaks.] Thanks for everyone's contributions, and sorry, I will answer the question. I just want to call out Jumbunna Institute does fantastic work. They produced a report in conjunction with IndigenousX for the Australian Human Rights Commission recently, mapping out anti-racism across all levels of government, and it's a brilliant report. I recommend all of you read it. What it showed was that many areas of government don't even want to use the word racism. So it's a bit hard to collect data on racism when some areas of government don't want to use the word. In terms of the university study, I think to draw on the work of the comments just made, what I'm truly hopeful is that we see coming out of it is a change to the structures. So you want people to be able to prosper with their whole selves, and you may have to think differently about the way in which you envisage the very institution of a university for that to happen, and make sure it doesn't privilege one group of people to the detriment of everyone else. So I'm hoping that it's broad and it's remit, and that it gives universities, I hope that universities participate wholly and fully with the preparation to be self-critical. Clearly UTS will do that. That's clear to me from this morning, and I hope others follow suit. And then are prepared to actually bring about significant changes, structural changes. Finally, the Accord mentions in a number of different areas in its recommendations the unique position of First Nations staff and students, and so I really hope that we can really draw that out in terms of the study.

[Applause]

[Elaine speaks.] Thank you so much, Giridharan. And I think what you have said and what people have been saying throughout today is this necessity to call things out, but also to actually listen to what's being said and then to action it from that structural perspective.

My next question is for Michael. So the Faculty of Engineering and IT is the university's biggest faculty and is a melting pot of people from diverse backgrounds. So how does your faculty foster respectful conversations and interactions amongst its students and staff, and has it been more challenging at the moment?

[Professor Michael Blumenstein speaks.] Thanks for your question. The Faculty of Engineering and IT is an extremely diverse faculty, and I've only really started digging into some of the statistics around that. I was taken aback by the fact that our staff complement, 86% is born overseas, the academic staff. That is huge. And of course, panellists have been talking about the diversity around Indigenous students and also just the regular student base being significantly comprised of international students as well, which we have a significant amount in both the postgraduate, but also in PhD students as well. So I think what's really important for us is, similar to what you were saying just now about taking stock and looking at what can we do to improve scenarios in the faculty to ensure that there is a really positive approach to looking at inclusivity, focusing on anti-racism, but calling things out as well is a really big part of that, because at the end of the day, if things aren't addressed, then they just keep progressing. So there's three things that I think we've looked at, and one of them is expectations, and expectations of both students and academic staff in the faculty, and it goes back to something very sort of administrative, but important, which Glenn spoke about, which is our codes of conduct and UTS student rules and so forth. It's sort of the blueprint for looking at how we interact, but it's all on paper, it's very, to some people, esoteric, it's, you know, what does it actually mean? But I think if we start in the right place of ensuring that we understand and have expectations of how we interact, it's a really positive approach. The second element is creating the environment for prosperity and inclusiveness amongst people from across the student and staff divide, but the community more generally, and it's an acknowledgement that we have a variety of cultures, a variety of international backgrounds, and students of all varieties that have come from either internationally or our First Nations students, and we've got to acknowledge that whole element by saying, what can we do to create the environment that makes sense for the best possible outcomes? So that involves people needing to understand they have access to training, for example, understanding respectful conversations, understanding that there are things we need to do to improve constantly, and it just can't sit there in a void without constant introspection and feedback. I think this applies within the classroom, it applies within how academics undertake their research, our PhD students undertake their research, and so we've started a lot of activities which are actually trying to create that environment. So we now have a respectful behaviours paper that's going to sort of outline how we would like the environment of interaction of students and staff and having that place where people feel safe and inclusive. We're working towards a teaching and learning inclusion framework or toolkit, sorry, which really has a variety of elements to it that will inform students and staff alike about where we'd like to go in our journey towards inclusivity. And I think the other thing that we're really proud of is that we've got lots of mechanisms beyond the classroom for students to have meaningful conversations or contributions to the faculty. I think I'm really proud that we've got probably one of the most active diversity, inclusion and equity committees in the university. Maybe I'm overstating that if other faculties are here who want to contend that. But I think we started quite, I suppose in a humble way, doing some initiatives which were sending signals, you know, we for example have core hours. We're the first faculty to create core hours in the university so that, you know, there was opportunities for equity for parents and people that couldn't act, you know, be on campus for certain periods of time because of responsibilities and family matters and other things. So, you know, small things but then, you know, they build into pretty large things. And now we've now got an international subcommittee. So we've got, basically it's initially geared towards staff. So actually saying, you know, we acknowledge the diversity within our staff. How do we make them feel welcome? 86% is huge of a base of students that are born overseas. How do we ensure that, you know, when they arrive they know what's available to support them and so forth? So we had our very first welcome event for international staff last week. I think, you know, we do a lot for our students but we don't always, you know, also have that interaction with our staff and acknowledge that there is diversity there. In terms of our committee, we have elected student representatives from postgraduate and undergraduate, you know, sort of programs and we're always ensuring that their voices are heard and captured within what we deliberate on and what future plans we have to improve, you know, and I think it's a journey for us in that. I think also we have probably the strongest women in engineering and IT group in the country. Again, I hope I'm not overstating that, over 40 years old, but what was interesting in my conversations and interactions and I do spend a lot of time discussing matters with our women in engineering IT unit is that they're also looking at, you know, their cohort of women that are diverse as well and there are activities, there are events that celebrate all, you know, sort of cultures and backgrounds and I think we need to look at it in multiple dimensions, so it's that intersectionality piece, it's looking at what other, you know, things that, you know, existing groups can do to create a environment of support for everyone, you know, and I think, you know, going back to what I was saying around respectful behaviours and respectful conversations, I think we all have a duty to ensure that, you know, if we're having conversations about, you know, controversial topics and, of course, there are many at this juncture, but, you know, as was pointed out earlier in the keynote, there have been many in the past and we've got to actually be ready for, you know, maintaining our position as a univers