• Posted on 19 Aug 2026
  • 3 mins read

More than 800,000 Australians are set to retire in the next five years, one of the biggest demographic shifts in the nation's history. It's a story that touches every generation, not just the one heading towards retirement, and it was the starting point for Riding the Silver Wave, a UTS public panel event held at the Great Hall and moderated by veteran broadcaster Geraldine Doogue AO.

Doogue was joined by four panellists working at the coalface of this shift: Dr Dionne Payn, founder of Women for Homes; Associate Professor Nelson Ma from the UTS Business School and the UTS Ageing Research Collaborative (UARC); Connie Porter, Head of Strategy and Business Support for Senior Services at Uniting NSW.ACT; and Professor David Brown, co-founder and co-director of UARC.

Over an hour of discussion and audience questions, the panel worked through housing, money, work, family and mortality, and pushed back hard on the idea that ageing is only a story about decline.

Here are five of the biggest takeaways:

1. This isn't just an "older Australians" issue


Doogue framed the evening around a simple but pointed idea: ageing reshapes life for everyone, not just the generation currently retiring. That played out across the discussion, from Nelson Ma's data on younger Australians locked out of home ownership, to David Brown's point that decisions made about ageing parents ripple through entire families, adult children and grandchildren included. As Brown put it, "an ageing Australia is a story about all of us, not just a small group of people who are in trouble."

2. Waiting for a crisis is the biggest risk

One of the most striking moments came when Brown described what he called the most confronting part of his research: that the biggest decisions about how people age are often made "in a hospital car park", in the middle of a crisis, rather than planned for in advance. Connie Porter agreed, noting that unlike a financial or legal mistake made at 25, a bad decision made later in life often can't be undone. The panel's shared message was that planning early, whether that's enduring power of attorney, downsizing or simply having the conversation with family, is an act of empowerment rather than an admission of decline.

3. Housing needs intergenerational thinking, not more silos

Housing affordability came up repeatedly, and not only as a young person's problem. Dionne Payn spoke about Women 4 Homes, her model for pooling small investments (from $5,000) to fund affordable housing for women at risk of homelessness, describing it as sharing both the risk and the reward rather than treating housing as a welfare issue. Brown pointed to countries like New Zealand, where granny flats are standard in new builds and routinely rented out, as an example of housing stock designed to work across a whole lifetime. Payn's own pitch: buy small, expand as your family grows, then move back into the smaller footprint later in life, with each stage supporting the next generation.

4. Ageing well is a health decision made decades earlier

Brown introduced a distinction that reframed a lot of the evening: the growing gap between lifespan (how long we live) and health span (how long we stay well enough to live the life we want). The research is clear, he said, that exercise, diet, sleep, alcohol and social connection all shift that gap, and it's never too late to start. He credited swapping his motorbike commute for a push bike as a small but deliberate part of that.

5. The real opportunity is reframing what older people contribute

Perhaps the strongest thread through the night was a challenge to the idea that ageing conversations should default to care needs and dependence. Nelson Ma pointed to research showing social intelligence often doesn't peak until between 50 and 80, well past when many people are pushed out of the workforce. Brown described academics at UTS doing their best work in their 50s and 60s, and retired executives who keep contributing as mentors long after leaving formal roles.

 Connie Porter brought it back to Uniting's own philosophy of care, built around what she called a household model that puts knowing the person ahead of managing their care needs. Her challenge to the room was squarely about scale: how do we reframe the huge amount of experience and willingness to contribute that exists in older people, and design a society that actually enables that contribution to be seen, met and delivered?

Doogue closed the evening by thanking panellists and the online audience, and by reiterating the core aim of the series: to move the conversation about an ageing Australia beyond crisis and towards possibility, for every generation.

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Riding the Silver Wave - UTS Great Hall 12 August 2026

Riding the Silver Wave - UTS Great Hall 12 August 2026 transcript

Thank you very much indeed for being here tonight. I'm Geraldine Doogue and I welcome both guests here before me And those who are online nationally and internationally. We have a very big crew online which is marvelous and I'm so Happy you could all join us for what I anticipate will be a really interesting discussion riding the silver wave and we'll you know define terms later. I Would like to acknowledge though as we start out that we honor the heritage we honor as contemporary Australians with our with Aboriginal custodians. We're meeting on Gatagle land of the Yora people and we're Enriched by their ancient traditions and experience very much. Now this is our plan for this evening. I'll introduce You to our panel shortly and chat to them to glean their ideas. That's probably about 25 minutes. We'll then open the floor to you for more Discussion probably for about 40 minutes using the Mentimeter system which you can see in a moment if you there we are.
That's what you're going to use to register questions to me and it'll come onto this iPad and I will make Sure that I try to get through as many questions. Sometimes I group them into groups of three so that we get through quite a few. And look, this is why we're here. More than 800,000 Australians plan to retire in the next 5 Years. It's an extraordinary figure which I didn't even fully grasp. And it'll usher in one of the biggest demographic shifts in our history. The Fact is though, it'll reshape life for all generations. And that's what we're particularly keen to talk about tonight.
Not just older Australians. And we sense anyway that debate is not Really occupying the degree of center stage that it should. As much as some More debates around aged care for instance are sort of seriously ventilated, The idea of looking at possibilities that might exist at sort of not just Good behavior but behavior that takes us further than we currently know. we don't think that's been given the Attention it deserves and we think it's it's to everyone's advantage for us to try to actually grasp what might be on Offer and how we could shape the course of events. Accordingly, we've invited some terrific voices from research from Frontline community work and from their own lives as you'll hear our guests articulate their own family stories or If they care to.
So we'll discuss how to how to design homes, how money and Community how we manage money and community in ways that work across a whole lifetime for all generations not Just for a small generation who's in the frame at the moment leading to all sorts of questions of well if I don't belong there you know am I part of the Conversation well yes that's our idea that you certainly are how this big wave of change can be ridden together. So to Discuss possibilities for the entire evening, I'm going to welcome our different guests and I'll ask each to Briefly introduce themselves and then to say how they got involved in this work and share where in a way they think This silver wave dream of ours connects with the sort of work they're doing. So could I ask Dr. Dion Payne who's the founder of Women for Homes.
Would you like to kick us off please Dion? Absolutely. so I started Women for Homes about 18 months ago and my background is in property development. Having done an affordable housing project, I could see how as having done an affordable housing project as a Developer, I could see how property can provide wealth creation. And I really wanted to look at how we can expand that Wealth creation to as many people as possible. So women for homes is really about bringing women together to invest Into affordable housing to help them be financially empowered as well as to solve a chunky social issue. Thank you Very much indeed. It's very much a strength-based which is there will be a lot of discussion about strength space I think tonight and I think the women For homes is one classic example. Now, Nelson Ma is with us as too.
He's an associate professor and a researcher and academic based here at the UTS business school and co-lead of The business and strategy theme in the UTS aging research collaborative. So, h how did you get into this Nelson? I Guess there's probably two main drivers of my interest in I guess the aging aspect as well as the sort Of financial security aspect that I that I'll hopefully touch on throughout the evening. but I guess when it Comes to the aging aspect like I had a very close relationship with my grandmother. So she lived to the Ripe old age of 101 and she lived in the house with us when I was a child.
She took care of me when she was in her 80s and then into her 90s. I saw her get older, you know, you know, she was Not able to walk on her own to the walking frame to then us recognizing she needed to go into residential aged care. And so I think that kind of narrative and that story of following that and seeing my grandma sort of change that sort of drove me down this area to Wanting to understand sort of the challenges that come with aging.
And so I had then the opportunity to work in that particular space. in terms of sort of the financial security side you know I teach Accounting for many years now and I remember distinctly you know in even some of my earlier classes you know you Have I had you know 17 18-year-old students come and ask me about financial security you know what do I need to retire what do I need to be financially Secure so they think about these things like a lot and I think that drove me down the path of wanting to better Educate the next generation about how they can be more financially secure and take away the insecurity, I take it as. Yes.
Yeah. Which is what we're very keen on tonight. Okay. Lovely. Now, Connie Porter is head of strategy and business support for senior services at Uniting New South Wales and the ACT, which is one of Australia's largest not for-profit providers of services for older Australians. So, you're right in this world, Connie.
We are. we are. So, a bit about me. So I am a nurse and a midwife by trade. So I've had the opportunity to Care for people at the very start of their life and also as they age. I'm a third generation nurse. Hi mom. Support crew. and so that's that's a bit about me. So in terms of Uniting, we provide care to over 25,000 older Australians every year. We have 70 residential aged care facilities. We provide home and community services. And we've got retirement living villages.
So, we're thick in the delivery of care to older Australians and we're very Much thinking about what does this change mean? What does the rising demand mean? What does it mean to have a Population where three in 10 [clears throat] older Australians, you know, who might be 85 have some form of Cognitive decline? How are we going to support the community to age well? So that's very much the business of uniting And we will develop this but are you finding that you want you're you're capable of drawing the wider community In or not yet because that's exactly what we're trying to work out.
I think there's pockets there's pockets and different communities have I guess different ways of interacting With services. Different people access services in different ways. So I think there's pockets. Would I say it's across all of Australia? Probably not.
But it's certainly a journey I think we're all on as we're all thinking about it. We're hearing about it in the news and you know, we're [clears throat] Thinking about can we afford to retire, all of those things. And I think me I getting a few more sparkles in my hair.
I was a bit offended that I'm not the youngest on the panel tonight. no offense Nelson, but you know, starting to think about, and not that my mom's Getting old, but you know, aging parents, what does that look like? How when you've got children, do you support aging loved ones? So, I think from a community perspective, I think we're all starting to think about it, How that shows up in system change or how we support our old Australians. I think that's an ongoing conversation.
Okay. And we'll develop that. And David Brown is here as our sort of overview. intellectual supplier of Facts. he's co-founder and co-director of the UTS Aging Research Collaborative, UARC, which we've just Been talking about outside, which is a six faculty pan university network of researchers. Very impressive sounding Actually, focused on care and support for aging Australians. So now David, what drew you into this?
Yeah, good question. okay, so this is probably two-part answer. intellectually what drew me into this was we were doing a study it was Actually a study on cognition and decision-making and it happened to be in an aged care organization and I had never Bumped into the aged care sector prior to that particular point and as we were doing this study it became very apparent To myself and the team the significant challenges as well as opportunities that existed in this sector. So we made a Decision to start doing research and working specifically in aged care.
then emotionally I discovered This when you know my mother is got significant health challenges and my father cared for my mother you know Her carer and then after a co we had the co sort of we didn't see my father for a couple of years well both my parents for A couple of years they live in Brisbane and so I went up and visited and my dad had this sort of unusual gate when he walked and you know one of the things I Recognized is that it was probably a signal of Parkinson's and it turns out that he it had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's when together that's like three times the problem because he doesn't rem remember that he's got Parkinson's and so he Doesn't know how to sort of manage the risks that he deals with.
and they want to live at home and so then they're arguing about we want to stay here and We want to look after ourselves and so I'm sort of dealing with that and then you know my wife's mother serious health challenges needing to Be cared for at the same time you know we have adult children who want to buy a house and we now have a grandson who Wants to buy a house and they're also spread out and so right in the middle of all of this that's kind of where I Really live the research church and really experience it viscerally as a okay I mean that's and can I basically Say that I mean I think that I really like the idea of working out how it can be this discussion can be much more than About illness and problems because I think I've got I've got to the age and working over many years in the media Where there's this great discussion to how much can I contribute ute do I contribute in different ways?
How do the Different generations interact so that they're in this extraordinary time we're living through so that you get a Wide range of adv ad vantage points. So that's a very rich and live Conversation I would say in the media in my area of interest. and what is Very interesting having just returned from a trip overseas is how much older people [laughter] are actually and are Allowed as it were on the air in the UK and in the US than are here., so That's another discussion. So, you know, what you see is what [clears throat] you believe is possible. And I think there's quite a discussion to be had which I'm Hoping sort of emerges from something like the silver wave conversation about, you know, how we characterize this stage Of this extraordinary demographic shift that we're living through. So that's that's what I bring to it and I'm looking forward to where we go.
So let's turn to trigger points to what got you in. Now Dion, you as you say, you built Women for Homes from A very personal sort of observation., older women in Australia are Particularly affected. Now, I'm really keen to hear about the moment you decided there had to be different Approaches to this that it wasn't satisfactory what was happening already.
Would you care to take us through that, please? Well, I remember during the pandemic and seeing quite a lot of women That were affected on the risk of home at risk of homelessness and what was happening. So, I live just Outside of Byron Bay. It's a beautiful place to live. When the pandemic was happening, there were a lot of people that were moving from Sydney, from Victoria to just be somewhere where because we could work from anywhere. So what was happening in my local area was That prices were being pushed up and affordable rents basically just disappeared. So I saw women after women Who was sleeping in their car or couch surfing or housesitting and the impermanence of that and the anxiety of That. I just felt with the skills that I have I can't just walk past and ignore that.
How long were they in the in the car in these sorts of arrangements? Oh, months. Months. Some still are. after the pandemic, we again in our local Area, we had the floods and that added another level of insecurity and displacement. I'm thinking that we had there was the government response from the reconstruction agency to put pods in Different areas. and that was helpful in a sense, but there was still a lot of people that were sleeping in Their cars. also one of the characteristics of where I live is that there's a lot of because it's quite Rural, there's a lot of illegal dwellings in the hills. So, I'm seeing that there's a lot of populations of people sleeping in cars, sleeping in Vans, just basically on rural land. and so what did you what did you Decide then? What went through your head when you started seeing all this? Well, there was a bit of anger actually.
I was seeing people in the community and I mean I talk about the Byron Shire because that's where I live, but this is happening all across Australia. So the anger that came was really because a lot of these women were women that contributed to the community.  And then couldn't because they were concerned about where they were going to live, that anxiety and stress. It just means that there's that lack of wisdom That gets passed down to the younger generation because, you know, women in that situation are thinking, well, how am I going to survive? What's my safety?
You know, I'm sleeping in my car. Is somebody going to come and knock on the door in the middle of the night? Am I going to be attacked? So, but then you came up with this amazing Idea of them contributing. so tell us about that please. Well I was at a marketing retreat and when I was talking about what it was that I was doing there were a lot of Women that were coming up to me and saying that's amazing. We'd love to be involved in that. And I mentioned that my background is in property development. I did that for a few years.
But then I was raising capital for other property developers again creating affordable homes. And when I was going Out to raise capital, the minimum investment was $50,000. And I realized that wasn't after at this retreat, I realized that wasn't very inclusive. And I really figured that if we could make this an everybody's solution, so everybody gets to Contribute, we might actually get somewhere faster.
So you came up see I'm really try because it's I think it's so ingenious. I really do. I think it's ingenious what you came up with. So, Women for Homes is about everybody being part of the solution, But how much how much they have? $5,000. $5,000. $5,000. Yes. So, when we started and this is still the case, but our mission is to inspire women to invest $5,000 or More to end homelessness by 2030. So, they're being financially independent and financially empowered. And again, We're solving this chunky problem. But presumably other women who can afford it put in more money. But your idea is that everybody has a financial stake and it changes the whole sense.
It's not a welfare quotes. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And because everybody has a stake in it, it's it's sharing the risk and it's sharing the reward. So clever. So clever. Now Nelson, you bring the younger generation's perspective [laughter] To just over three months over. No pressure at all. and you talked about people coming up to you. I think that's really cute. Coming up to you After lectures and saying, you know, how do at the age of 18, how do I think about my retirement? I tell you why I wasn't doing that. what would You say are the main questions that preoccupy younger people as they look, you know, and constant headlines about what's affordable and what's not.
How would you summarize it? Oh, it's I think there's there's a few things here and [sighs] I would say that kind of the three and I'll talk through them. I guess the first is housing. Yeah, that's that's that's a huge one. The second one is the cost of living and The third is job security. so the key the big question, you know, the big question we all have, you know, at Sort of these younger generations is are we going to be able to afford a house?
Are we ever going to be able to buy a house? And so, you know, we Sydney as well as all the other capital cities in Australia,, I'm almost famous Worldwide for being notoriously unaffordable. So, every city capital city in a in Australia is either extremely unaffordable or impossibly Unaffordable by measure by various measures.
And so,, you know, it's if you look at the statistics, it's it's it's clear what's what the what trend is happening. you Know we have you know the medium income earner if they want only about 14% of medium Income earners can afford the median house right as you can imagine it should be 50% right if it's the median house absolutely So that so that's a big issue and then you look at home ownership rates and how they're changing the boomer generation when they went you Know before 30 by 30 about 66% owned a home now if you look at Gen Z, it's half of that, about one-third.
So, you can sort of see these trends emerging that, you know, young people know that have accepted, and I have a lot of friends that have accepted that they're never going to be able to afford A home and that they'll spend their entire lives renting. And kind of the renting theme kind of feeds into the cost of living. because right now we're look we're looking at inflation rates, you know, 3.8%.
So, incredibly high. The cash rates incredibly high. which means that borrowing is incredibly high for those that own a home. And if you don't own a Home, that's probably even worse because what is driving inflation right now? It's rent. rents are up 7% in the last year. And so there's that constant anxiety that the younger generation have About the fact that things are getting more expensive. and the wages aren't catching up. And that kind of brings me to the third point about job security.
You know, there's all this talk about AI replacing office workers. And we're starting to see that in the data. And Just this year alone, I think companies have announced about 165,000 people worth of layoffs because of AI Worldwide. Oh, I don't know if you have the but the layoffs are happening, you know, you know, in large companies in the states like Microsoft and Amazon, but They're also happening locally with technology companies like Wise Tech and Atlassian announcing sort of job Cuts. But look that is a pretty grim old list be and individual people Have to find a way do they not of actually still motivating themselves so that they do look for their own way Through h how do you speak to people how do you speak to young people in terms of ad of providing I don't mean nonsense Hope and polyiana hope but that you know they are starting out on a wave we don't know where it's going to go. Is that how you speak to them?
Yeah. I think you know I think there's I think there's always anxieties in different generations and I think it's important to recognize that. So whatever Generations were felt like whatever anxieties were felt in previous generations you know were valid at the time and as is this Particular anxiety around sort of being of housing affordability and cost of living and jobs but I think these Things come and go right if I can use an example you know we you know they when the you know so I'm an accountant By trade don't hold that against me but they said when Excel was developed that oh you know accounting is Going to die as a profession, right? It didn't die, it got bigger, right? you know, and so it's it's it's the same thing the same thing will happen with AI, right?
It's it rather than saying that, oh, it's going to replace you know, humans, well, it's going to replace some jobs that humans do, But it's going to create all these other jobs, right, that don't yet exist. And so, I think there is some positivity in that sense.
Yes. I mean the radio's been radio's death has been called several times and it hasn't occurred and in fact at The moment you know it's just the same sort of thing podcasting is transforming the world of audio to it extraordinary Levels which wouldn't have even been seen oh 10 years ago oh six years ago to be candid. So I just yeah I think it's The listing of everything awful I think is so deadening you know it's really it's upsetting. Now, one of The things that we're really trying to look at tonight, too, about sort of housing, whether you can afford it, is that you don't do it on your own. And that's where I'm delighted to bring Connie in here because uniting sits, you know, really at the heart, as you say, of a lot of the service pres provision and conversation working Across all sorts of all sorts of different stages, I might add, from youth to right through to seniors, doesn't it?
So, what's can I ask you About a story maybe from Uniting's work that does help us understand what we're talking about tonight? Possibilities as well as what's actually underway. Yeah, I was thinking about what we could share and what would be lovely.
And there's some massive stories, some really exciting things like a couple of years ago, I think it was last year, we had a big seniors ball here in Sydney And we had 800 older Australians that came from all over New South Wales and ACT to have this fabulous night of Fun and dancing and carnival rides and we had, you know, lots of great food and wine and it was just it was brilliant.
So that's one story I could share with you or I could talk about just a little while ago. We helped a lovely Lady on the south coast organized to go skydiving for her 100th birthday. She was one of a resident in one of our Homes down that way. But I thought about the stories that stick with me and what I think I wanted to share with the Group. I think we get lots of really poor stories about aged care or things that go wrong. And there are things that go wrong and there are things that we Can do better as a sector, but I think the things that stick with me most or make me most inspired by the work that That more than 9,000 team members at Uniting do is just that humanness of the everyday connection. So when where When you know you get to travel around and you go into the different homes and you see that somebody a support Worker is knowing somebody or knows what they want or seeing the person and not the task or they're not seeing that they have to help someone in the shower.
They're seeing the person for who they are. They understanding what they like and what drives them. So that to me is sort of the humanness of the work is The things that the story I'd most like to share with this group tonight because I think we see lots of really terrible things but there's so much good That's done every day in Do you enjoy it?
I really do. I think it's it's important work and I think the measure of any society is how you look after those who are vulnerable and That's what uniting really does. as you said, we have programs right from kids into older services and We really think about, you know, how do we disrupt entrenched disadvantage?
So, we're looking at about how do we help those vulnerable people whether they're younger or older people, whether they're poor people at the heart of what We do as a service arm of the uniting churches, we're thinking about that all people matter. And so I think that I think the work's really important and I Think they're people who are working to support older people in home care services or in our residential aged care Facilities. They're really unsung heroes. And do you think you're ready for this giant shift that is coming?
I'm hopeful that we're thinking about aging differently. I think overwhelmingly the pop you know the Community saying we want to age at home and all of the settings that the government has done in this wa last I Guess wave of looking at aged care is sort of trying to support people to age in a place of their choosing And whether that's at home or in a retirement village or what have you. I guess for me the things that worry us As a provider is what if you don't have a stable house? How do you get to age at home? What if you're in your car as an older person? So I think I Think are we ready? I think it's a there's a massive change that we're all going to have to work together to  Support. I think we've got work for, you know, we can't we can't sugar coat it.
There's massive work for force shortages. there's a how do we pay for it conversation that we're we're Going to have it as a community. But I think that we're certainly thinking about care in different ways. We've changed the way we think about care as a Sector. You know, long gone are the task-based days where everybody's up at 6 and we're giving people showers and you Have your breakfast at 8. The models in which we have at Uniting is really that person-centred, person-led we call it a Household model. So, we try and arrange our homes to be more like a home. It's never going to be the same as being at home, but we certainly try. We have Kitchens that, you know, a group have. We do lots of those sorts of things where people feel like it's more Of a home environment rather than a sort of you know, old institutional environment.
Okay. Well, we'll probably come back and I'm sure there'll be some questions about that, but that is lovely to hear. Now David you I think you brought together six different faculties is that right for the UARC here at UTS on Aging research. What was the moment when you realized it needed that sort of scale of exploration?
That's such a good question. the reality is actually when myself and a couple of colleagues were Analyzing the data in the Royal Commission into aged care, you know, we're attending sessions and looking at Things unfolding and what became very clear to us is that if we're going to Change the trajectory of you know some of the things that were talked about during that time period, we needed  Integrated approaches to I mean people have integrated lives and then they work in this sort of reductionist system and work with bits of it. And so the Solutions and the you know sort of some of the challenges to provide a much better life for people as they age through the various stages actually Requires a more complete approach.
And so we looked at that and said, well, okay, we can't see this as being a Health research challenge or just an economic one or a housing one or a legal one or it needs to be all of that and All of that working together. And that's what we did what we started with.
And where have you been surprised? Where have you had to disrupt yourself and your own assumptions? Because I bet you have had to. Yeah, I got to tell you the mo most confronting part of this is when I realized that the biggest Decision that people make typically about aging or is made about you know what happens as people age is made in a hospital car park.
And so what happens is that typically there is some kind of crisis that happens you know and I had my own family experiences with this. there's a Crisis that happens and people are trying to make a decision about what's going to happen next. And unlike, you know, if you're 25 and you make a Financial mistake or a legal mistake, you can usually recover from that because you've got me this is at a point In your life, particularly towards the sort of later stages of our life as we age, you can't recover from a bad decision in that context. And so that Was kind of the quite confronting.
And so the question then becomes well okay so how do we then work as a society and Across generations so that these decisions are not made under car park but they're actually made earlier and we Have systems that even prevent us getting to that particular point and what I mean that's such an important point and I've seen that in related Family where some people have seen what's coming seen it and can articulate It and others say no we're not discussing that we're not going there.
So it is seen but it's rejected as too demanding. Now this is a terribly I mean this is going to become more and more Important isn't it to I mean we're all told how to imagine you know in terms of financial planning my goodness that's the constant message is that you do Think and you actually put words to and think of stages and get you know advice from somebody who helps you turn that Into real something real but it's not happening around this what is it's too it suggests that people are going to die is that is that it Yeah I There's a couple of challenges facing one's mortality. I mean, what do you think, Connie?
I definitely think it's really confronting and as we've got become a society where we don't necessarily you You know, I loved your story, Nelson, about your grandma, but that's unusual. That's not normal. not that's not normal, but that's unusual. You're very normal, [laughter] Nelson. we know what you mean.
, so I think the way we live now, we have very different family structures. They're smaller. We've got more female workforce participation. We've got a large geography. People move away for work. So, we don't have those sorts of Supports around people and we don't see people age unless there's, you know, some sort of crisis. But I do think the Problem that we end up facing is it's really confronting. And I think when you've been an amazing I think of  Family members who are amazing intellectual people who've contributed so much and it's only their body that ends up letting them down. It's really Difficult to think about well how do I have that conversation with that person or how do we plan so it isn't a you know A fall and a fractured kn and then well not waiting for it to be crisisled.
It just seems to me to be such a crucial thing. Don't wait for the crisis because that's what is what we're told across in Careers you know intergenerationally isn't it? And yet it seems to pertain to this later area of life. I think There's probably two types of people we see. They're people who are planners and so then they plan to downsize. They come and live in Retirement villages and they've got a different they're more proactive in that way and they're thinking okay I'll choose that village because I can get services there and that will Meet my needs. So they don't want to be a burden. And there are other people who don't want to think about it and that's I think around the fact that you know we Are mortal. although we're living longer there's still an end. And I think that it's that readiness to think about what that end looks like and what that Means for you and your family. I think that's really difficult conversation and we don't see people die at home. You know, other cultures that's very normal. Sure.
But for us it's it's not. It's very sort of somewhere else. David, you one of the other challenges I think that sits within this is so it's it's Not only the kind of natural propensity not to plan for many people but also even if you do if you're Inclined to do that what you're dealing with is a very complex and impenetrable system System. So you know for example if you think about financial planning so we've you know got really good models associated with financial planning.  If you have means you can pay a financial planner, but there's lots of really great stuff online that you can use. We also have lots of information About health related activities, what happens as you age and health. We know lots about living circumstances. So, we know quite a lot about each of these Bits, but getting on top of each of those bits in itself is incredibly difficult task.
And then what you've got to be able to do is be able to see how All of that interacts and integrates. So well actually do I have the means to live in the way I want to live to get the care I want to get? So if I don't then what do I do? So where do I live?
How do I live close to family? Should I live close to family? What are the legal challenges associated with living? Oh, granny flat in the backyard. That's a good idea. The children will take care Of us. Oh, now we've got property disputes. And so this is the environment people are trying to make decisions in. And you know, some of The smartest people I know have said to me that they have found this an Impenetrable problem in their own decision- making. And that's some of the work we're trying to do at the moment to actually be able to piece that together So that if someone finds themselves in a car park and having to make this decision, they actually have the information to make a decision where Life is going to be better than it would have been otherwise. Well, that's exactly what I was going to ask Dion.
You know, when these women do once they get in into your system and they're contributing and obviously they start to feel they have a role to play, Do they become hap can you see joy re-entering their lives? I mean, they must have been hugely anxious before into all of that instability. can You re reasonably say to people, look, there are some very good stages still to come. That's what I'm trying I really because intergenerationally I'm going to Ask you about that in a short that's what we're really trying to talk about tonight. Are there intergenerational possibilities that we're not tapping?
Well and just for full transparency we haven't built our first co-living home for older women yet. There are some Very good case studies though. there are there's an organization in Sydney where they did something in the Blue Mountains and brought a group of women Together and this was a charity based model so it's different to what we're proposing but I did remember reading A story about a lady called Jan who had been homeless. she got into one of these places and her life turned around and she was so grateful and so happy.
It was a really new lease of life for her. and she'd been a school teacher, so she'd contributed all of her Life. so, you know, fell into this situation through no fault of her own, divorce, separation. so yes, they There can be happy endings. I think Compass has done a whole story on that.
I'm just thinking about it and it was quite true. People just suddenly saw possibilities for themselves that they'd started to become more and more weary, If you know what I mean. And then suddenly, as one said, I can exhale. It's a lovely moment, you know, spending time like that. She could exhale and get on with life. What about intergenerationally,, Nelson? I mean, Do you see any, you know, given what you went through in your own family, do you honestly think, be honest, you know, Do people think intergenerationally or don't they?
It's, yeah, I mean, it's I think it's really hard to see all these pieces in the broader sort of Environment, right? We think about we think about things these things as quite discreet and unrelated. you know you Know what a what a what a younger person is experiencing in terms of their particular you know of their job Security or their financial security and compare that to an older person who's thinking about sort of retirement you Know receiving sort of some sort of aged care. But I kind of see these things as all part of a System that works together. because you know we need obviously younger People to work and you know pay taxes in order to help fund part of the retire like help fund sort of the aged care That the old you know older Australians receive.
But at the same time there's I think the tension exists in that you know There you know there's this perception that you know these younger Australians are just paying for you know paying for the older Australians and you know There are I think the actuarial institute did a study that basically said there's a if you take a 31-year-old that's making $100,000 Their net income what they receive after they pay tax and get some any sort of government benefit is about 85,000.
For someone that's 71 if they make 100,000 their net income minus their taxes plus the get the benefit they get From the government that's about 125,000. So, so it seems like older Australians do get Better get more out of the tax system at this stage. And I think that's kind of that frustration that I think younger People see. and it's not, you know, and I think they're not they're not concerned about it's it's not about Someone else getting ahead, but it's it's about them I guess it's it's about them not feeling like, you know, That they that their hard work has basically paid off. It's hard hearing this, but it's honest.
And that's exactly what I'm I'm going to actually go to questions in a moment because I suppose that's exactly the Question of if the different generations all considered that they that they are observably contributing To Australian life and Australian competence. Yeah.
Everybody I think would feel they had more of a stake in it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if I could just add to that and I think it's it's not necessarily, you know, sort of a criticism of the system, but I it's the Way it's structured and, you know, there's I think if you want to sort of tap into the way younger people think, you got to, you know, go onto social Media and see the types of things that they like, right?
And there's this and I think about this particular reel u where there are these older these older Individuals kind of dancing in like this sort of community center and the caption is that oh boomers after you know boomers it's boomers after selling Their house for $3 million that they bought for 12 shillings and a basket of raspberries [laughter] and I think it's like and so When you couple that with the fact that oh you know you know younger people don't get as much benefit out of the tax system in terms of health benefits You wonder well if you are older and you do you have done really well in terms of you own a house you know you have a good income you have an Investment property maybe you know you have good superannuation maybe there's an opportunity to contribute more on your end to the healthcare you receive Okay that's that's an open question which we'll take now I'm going to invite I' I've got if we could have that slide
Up again please because the that you can send me a question which will come through to my iPad here. I've got Several that have actually come in. I'm delighted to say and I'm going to throw the questions open to you. So Here's one. My parents are approaching retirement with less super than they hoped. What are the practical options For people in their 60s who don't have decades to build wealth?
Now David, I think I might throw that to you. So probably the first thing is the superannuation system when that was introduced has been such a gift to Australia for a whole range of reasons. but we see enormous  Inequalities with the super system. So for example particularly females who have broken work careers who don't Get to contribute to the same amount because their careers of sort of taken up with perhaps you know child Caring or caring for parents and other things. also you know there is you know clearly the evidence Shows that there's an income gap between males and females which then has impact on superannuation. So we do have Challenges with the superannuation system. I think one of the things that's kind of important to think about And I think there's kind of an interesting underlying assumption in that question that people think well okay I'm going to get to 60 in my mid60s And so therefore I need enough money and then I'll retire and then we'll go and do all the good things that we want to do and we'll have enough money to live in the way that you know we see on TV.
Well that's kind of not the reality of life for most people in society. But there's also an enormous opportunity in that cuz what the research tells us is that the more active you are, the More actively you're engaged in work, then the longer you live, the healthier you are., and so the idea of, oh, let Me pull up stumps and now I'll live off my money as opposed to perhaps, well, you know, I will work part-time now and I'll continue to engage actively and you Will live longer, you'll be healthier, you'll be happier, you'll be better socially connected. and there's kind of a really interesting you know Interesting research about the sort of reduction in capability and you know functionality and so on when we Actually withdraw from work. So I probably would reframe the question and go well actually you know what's stopping us actually working longer.
See, it's funny. I was going to ask you that I have I know three cases of people. One just recently in my yoga class, a man of 60, very effective man. He plans to retire, but he wants to go into not for-p profofit work. And I remember going to having an ear problem and he was stepping back very highly Skilled specialist and he wanted to go and prepare people for go to Court and prepare help people prepare for courts you know so is that part of the like not everybody wants to go on Cruises or maybe the odd cruise if you know what I mean that people are seeking aren't they other forms of engagement which they think will tap into their talent.
Yeah, absolutely. So, a number of years ago, I used to be the associate dean external engagement in the business school and one of the things I bumped Into which I'd never seen before and it was because perhaps stimulated by the dean that we had at the time, Professor Roy Green. and I would regularly be approached by people who had been seuite executives. you know, CFO, CEO, Chief operating officer, like really senior executives who had retired, you know, maybe 60 or early 60s, you know, with lots of, you know, assets and So on who wanted to stay actively engaged. And so they would come to the university and they would go, okay, what can I do and what can I contribute to The community via, you know, a really good institution, a university?
Did you have a good answer for how can I help students? How can I help with research? Did you have an answer for them? Ah, yeah, absolutely. We like enjoyed that labor all that all that we could and they get them on board and pay them nothing. I mean amazing mentoring. I mean you think about like a 20-year-old in a class who then has you know someone Who's been a CEO walk into the room and go well let me explain to you how this works at this level. I mean it's just extraordinary. That's one end of the Spectrum. I guess the other end of the spectrum is as I alluded to earlier that you know being engaged in work in different kinds of work.
Nelson made Such an interesting point u at the beginning many of the interesting points that Nelson has made as well as my other Panelists about the fact that society itself is shifting and changing and so what this means is how as we age we Think about what our work is shifts and changes can I just another question one way to bank the longevity dividend is to Challenge agism in employment and allow people to work how and when they want.
I'd love the panel's thoughts on how employers, big and small, could do new and better things. Maybe Connie, I'll ask you about that. Yes, we should. And I think we do, and I think it depends on the organization. I think there are lots of people in our service who are well beyond Retirement age. I know that I have family members who are still working and You know they're you know pushing 70 and the other one I think maybe 76 or something. Don't go she's probably Watching online but and they're both registered nurses and they're both still contributing and working and doing Good things. So I think that we should be doing that. I think in some professions it's more accepted than it is in others and I think there's such an opportunity In that and also so yes paid work but also volunteers are an important part of the work that we do at uniting.
We wouldn't have the sorts of programs that we have and are able to run without our volunteer services. Actually another question the conversation around aging can sometimes focus on care needs and dependence which we've done a bit of. How do we shift the Narrative towards recognizing older people as contributors, leaders, mentors within the community? Gee, I think this Is important. you know, just fra framing sort of articulating what are the possib again, dare I say it, the Possibilities which are active and engaged. are you are you working on this David? You Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a couple of really interesting aspects. to this there's really Interesting research on intelligence that shows that you know certain the different types of intelligences that we Have peak at different ages. So, say for example, our mathematical intelligence peaks typically at about 27.
sorry Everybody, but most of us are probably beyond our mathematical intelligence. But what's really interesting around social intelligence is that often that doesn't peak until somewhere between 50 And 80 depending on the kind of social intelligence you're talking about. Now I could give you some really practical Examples of that. In academia where you work cognitively and particularly when you work on social related problems Often those academics they don't peak until they're in their 50s and 60s.
That's when they do their best work. the most famous one of the most famous professors of the 20th century a guy called Herbert Simon who you know Won I think two Nobel prizes and he was teaching firstear psychology until He was 90. Now he is my hero. I want to be able to teach first year business students in my 90s. I'm not sure my Spouse will be happy about that or maybe she will be.
Maybe she might. [laughter] But I think really valuing what people bring to the table based on the Experiences. So I think that's kind of one side of the equation. the other side of the equation. I don't know, I hope this is not too contentious, but People also then have to be willing to learn and grow and engage and be Proximate and contribute and so not just say well this is the way I do things and so therefore you know this is What I know you but actually learn and grow themselves.
Quite right. I have a view about this that I think that actually if you have to disrupt yourself and it's terrifying. [laughter] [gasps] It's terrifying and you lose control of your fate and that's also all part of it and then you gradually grab It back. you know, I'm learning about this on going into podcasting and global roaming and working with much younger people and you just you're suddenly very Different and the technology is so demanding and that is such a huge issue Learning how to sort of ask for help and accepting that quite a lot of the people who are excellent on the tools may have Not the same degree of judgment [laughter] that an older person brings.
But that's exactly right. It's it's a dance. It's a tandem dance and in its own way it becomes quite thrilling but My god it's challenging as well. That's certainly been my experience and I don't know whether others would like to Come in. There is what is the one thing every 25year-old should be doing now to prepare for an aging Australia? Nelson.
Wow. That's [laughter] that is the that is the very big question. [sighs and gasps] , do you want to pause and think and I'll I'm happy to jump in. You do, please. I got some advice. I wish I had known this advice before I had children, but it's basically save as much as you can in super as early as you can in super.
Yeah. No, I think that's that's a really great one. I think sort of having that view about your financial security and Knowing, you know, what's what you need to aim for in order to be financially secure. I think that's like the main thing. So you think that financial security underpins a lot, do you? That perception of forward financial security, you think?
Yes. Yeah. Because once you have that security, I think it makes it easier to sort of sort of take other risks, you look for opportunities, whether it be in work, to Be willing to change work, to be willing to go and study more, or you know, do all those things that you wouldn't otherwise do if you didn't have that financial security. And I once you Know many years ago I partnered with a CEO and what we wanted to do was sort of bring financial literacy out To the to the you know to the student population and you know and he and he gave me a really simple rule. He said you know think about Think about you know if you if you understand the laws of compounding right and the fact that you know $100 today is you know will increase you know to 107 Or $110 in a year depending on what you invest in and $ 110 becomes you know $120 130 and it gets bigger and bigger.
If you start today it's going to you're going to have a lot of money in the future but then you won't have as much for your average. Yes. But he said, "Okay, well," he's like, "Well, if you if you take, you know, someone that gets a cup of coffee every single day, right? That cup of Coffee, $4, $5, right? So, if you skip your cup of coffee each day and you get a you get the instant coffee at work Or you make one at home, right? That's that's $25 in a week, right? in about 40 weeks, less than a year, you've got $1,000 saved. And that $1,000 if you invest now, if you can invest $1,000 every year, if you compound it, I Didn't do the math, but you know, by your retirement, you'll have close to half a million dollars basically on that $1,000 saving alone.
You know, you just Don't realize it because you don't see the compounding happen, but it's once it gets really large, you know, over time that the growth just keeps growing on Itself. So, I want to come back to what you said that was very interesting, Dion, that you There's obviously a point where You realized it was it that super was well I mean there's a great argument about this of course as we know but what was it that made you made that decision?
Well I so when I came to Australia in my mid20ies and I did a PhD Southern Cross University. I didn't have a big job history before I came to Australia. And when I finished my PhD I went straight into having children. So, I didn't have a lot of super nice.
I remember I stayed home with my children. It was beautiful. Really enjoyed it. But I Do remember feeling a bit guilty that I was staying home and not really contributing to the household, whereas it was my husband that was contributing. And it wasn't until afterwards and sort of having that hindsight and mindset shift of going, "Well, holy cow, I birthed two humans and they're good humans." like that's a huge contribution. and at the time I didn't recognize that for the Contribution that it was. So I think in hindsight if I had at that time I would have suggested to my husband that we you Know that he contributes to my super as well.
Gee that's an interesting story actually and I wonder whether that's in a funny sort of a way that's all contributed to Your work with these women. Connie, do you, try to encourage anything at All like that? I mean, I noticed one of the questioners here is something that I've been thinking. In places like the Netherlands, there have been housing Experiments with younger and older generations living in apartments and communities. Should we explore those here?
We should, do we?, no. I think the system doesn't quite the system doesn't quite allow us to do that. I Think the ways that we try and do it at Uniting, we've got intergenerational programs, we've got lovely programs that Are might be early childhood groups that come into our homes and relationships develop as the children Grow. And it's such a beautiful thing to see. some of the other programs we have are where high school students come for sort of an intensive 12week Program really where they you know meet up with older people and they have discussion points and it's a learning from both  The older people who are involved and the younger people. And I think the thing that I would point out in that clip, and I've watched it a few Times, so I didn't get teary eyed sitting up here in front of you all, but it is very moving. And I think it's the thing that I'd like to say is both People, both the younger person and the older person got something out of that interaction.
And I think the other thing is as you age, The people that I talk to, they don't feel any different on the inside. It's just your outside shell that starts to change a bit. So, I think it's that human connection and creating those Opportunities to know people. But you're right, there are or whoever popped that in the chat, there are lots of different ways of doing things in our System. We don't currently explore those, but we certainly have, you know, employment programs where we have Younger people in their high end of high school doing a certificate in personal care and they come and they start to do that sort of work. So we're Exposing them to do they stay because I know this is it's it's tough, isn't it?
I think it depends on the person. So I think I think it depends. Some people start the work and they you just can't leave it because it is so important and I think once you've cared for people it's something that's an inch an itch you need to scratch. So from I think for Me many people are called to work. So I think I don't know the stats of how many stay but we certainly see people who've done that I'm thinking in Port McQuary where I come from that have done that course and then stayed on and then gone to university worked with us throughout university and then come back Into the sector not always staying in the same place as registered nurses. So, there's certainly those types of programs and they're so important. And I Think the thing of that clip is just that knowing the person. That's such a an overarching philosophy  That we try and create in particularly in our residential aged care facilities is that household model. Know the person.
It's it's about the person. It's not about the care needs. It's about what do we need to know about the person. Do you want to say something, David? No. You were waving the mic in the way that I [laughter] was waving the mic. yeah, I think could I just pick up on something that Connie spoke about The individual and I guess what I would loosely describe as the culture associated with this and I think you know there are opportunities in Australia for a cultural shift.
I remember a number of years ago my wife and I were out socially and we met This young Japanese woman and you know just for the first time and so making a bit of small talk you know how Come you're in Australia I'm studying English okay of course and then I said so what did you do for work when you're in Japan and she said I worked in Aged care and I'm like oh okay now this is going to be an interesting conversation and then so I said I Said to So, what did you do in aged care? Like, because I'm really interested in this.
And she said, "I bathed older people." Now, I went like, "Do you do we need English?" I said, "You bathed all No, no, no. My job was I bathed older people." And I was sort of quite taken back by that. And so, then I go like, "Oh, so how did you find that? Like, what was that like as a job?" thinking, I don't know, perhaps a little Negatively about the task. And she said, "I love that job. That is an amazing job. I wish I wish I could do that job In Australia." And so I go, I say to her, I was at bit shortcircuited at that point. And I'm going like, "So, why do You like bathing old people so much?" and she said, "Well, in our culture, bathing is really important and we have Great respect for our older people." And so for me to have the privilege to every Day bathe those older people, to show them respect, help them participate in Something that is really important to them and for us as a society. See, there's no greater privilege in life.
And I like I was paid to do this. Wow. And it's what's really interesting was that she was able to identify what was important culturally for those people and then able to participate in that. And I think that speaks to this point. We have to figure out what's important to each other and then participate in it.
Well, actually, look, there's an interesting question here which I think is a little bit of a segue, but this is important in our culture. I have older Parents. We are discussing and planning to get enduring powers of attorney and enduring guardianships in place should They lose decision-making capacity. Now, I think this is a very interesting one because I think that can be either, oh My god, they think I'm deteriorating or it can be a very collaborative, respectful interaction.
I think it's also empowering. So I think when you were talking earlier about the stages and knowing when to do I think it can be empowering. So Making that decision for yourself having that thought around what that might look like for your family and then it's empowering because it's not Lastminute. com where something terrible's happened and you're trying to scramble to arrange things. I think we've got to change the conversation and I think as the baby boomers start to age. I think this is a real opportunity for us to Change the conversation in our society to think about aging as you know it is an opportunity. What do we do differently? How do we want it to look Like? Like I think there is a real conversation starting which I think is exciting because we wouldn't have had this kind of conversation probably 15 years ago Because it was things that happened to other people in other places.
But I think now because more people are aging and we've Lived full lives, we're starting to think, well, how can we do it differently? I want to age differently than I Well, maybe it can be seen as a very Competent family that is able to do this in a clever way and that changes from being a crisis thing done by people Who are hanging on for grim death, but it's actually a well constructed planning. That's what I've been thinking.
How do we do it at scale? So, I think it's, you know, we'll have some people that are well connected. They understand and they can see some things Coming. But I think for me as people as the growing population of older people starts to really ramp up, How do we do it at scale? So how do we create systems and how do we change regulation and things so that we can Create ways of doing things so that we don't leave some people behind quite I agree completely. And how do you do it like you know one of the like Libraries could well be a very important venue like it's extraordinary. I remember sitting I sat on the Telster Foundation board which distributed their For years actually their philanthropy part of their philanthropy and we did a broad survey as to how we could Help people equip them to cope with the with technology changes. This is years ago and the answer was libraries.
Libraries serve an extraordinary range of the population very well very you know very much a service. It's not again It's not welfare related. it's that sense of people skilling themselves by choice. So I mean these are the sorts of conversations and we've got another good Question here. I think people's fear or hesitation for planning for the future that is mortality and death is also due To the future being quite unknown or abstract and how they can't grasp the idea. Thoughts please from the panel. Do you do you agree with that Dion?
Yes I do. And part of this conversation I'm really drawing the parallels of death duelers. So these are people that Will help as you're departing. it seems to me that we need doulas that can help in this transition as well. And Then the question is well how do we upskill people to be able to support people to think about these things?
Yeah. And it's probably it is probably doable once we start to c you know especially if you think about as you say At scale. now this is one for you Nelson. I had a savings mentality says This guest. I worked a full-time and part-time job to get ahead but made frugal decisions about spending. This seems different in younger generations.
What is the mindset in a younger generation would you say?
You know, it's it's so interesting like you know, like There's there's, you know, I although I consider myself younger, I can sort of see myself, you know, being in the middle of what is the kind of Battle between Gen Zed and the boomers and, you know, and there, you know, you know, boomers, you know, you have to cost nothing to buy your house and The boomers fire back like, oh, all you do is eat avocado and toast and it's just [laughter] but I guess it taps into this, But you know, I There is this underlying I guess issu anxiety I think that a lot of Younger people are experiencing right now in that they recognize well I can't afford a house right or if I want to if I want to be able to afford a house It's going to take me I think on the average I think you know it could take upwards of 6 years or something on the median income just to afford a 20% deposit and so I know a number of my friends have just said if I'm if I can't afford a house, why bother saving?
Oh, dear. I'll just I will just live my life and enjoy it and just choose to rent my entire life because that's the only option I have. But I must say that is in Some ways better than alternatives where people, you know, where I think The way younger generations are maybe wired in that there's, you know, there so they're getting constantly bombarded With media and entertainment. they always think about getting like quick payoffs, you know, when they're when they're scrolling Instagram or Tik Tok. They feel this that they should have the same thing with their investing and they might take very large risks in investing. And so I, you know, I know people that said, you know, I'm not going to be able to afford a house, so I'm going to invest in the stock market, but I'm going to invest in a Stock that is like has like three times the leverage or something.
So instead of, you know, instead of investing, I can invest my $100 and it's worth 300, which is great when the market's going Up. But then what we saw about two months ago was in South Korea was the market dropped 40%. And I think was maybe 400,000 people lost all their investment in because they Invested in these really risky stocks and 60% of that were people under 30. Wow. So is that right? Yeah.
Well, that's one of the great worries, big worries actually. I don't I don't want to discuss worries, but you know, in the AI boom that a lot of moms and Dads in America are into it. So that if it if it does, who knows? Who knows? But you know, there's a lot of very exposed people who Shouldn't be in the market with that level, I don't think.
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's it's really easy to get sort of caught up in the in all the pandemonium. Wow. Like, you know, Nvidia, Apple stocks are up 20% this year and that sounds all great until the market adjusts and then all of a sudden, you know, you're Still That's an interesting answer. If they sort of say, "Yes, I can see that.
You know, we'll blow it. I'll go for something quick. I hope that answers our question." it probably makes them more annoyed. But anyway, I'm a Retirement coach, says this questioner. It is critical we all plan for non-financial issues and that we do So in our 50s. The non-financial issues help to inform the financial decisions. Is there a role for AI here or not? David.
We yeah I mean we're currently some of the work we're currently doing is actually using you know AI large Language models and so on being able to actually pull these things together to help this sort of planning. So I Think there's definitely a role on that level. I think there's also a genuinely interesting point that you See has started to become a little bit more discussed in recent times and that's that the kinds of health related Decisions that we make in our 40s and 50s and so on and the impact that they have on our life later on. So one Of the critical things to think about in this context is you have lifespan. I mean how long you going to live and then you have health span. So, how long You're going to be able to live in a mobile healthy kind of way. Now, one of the problems we've got is we've got an increasing gap between health span and Lifespan. So, we're living longer, but we're kind of not that well as we are aging.
And what the research shows Really clearly is that there are many things we can do that actually push our health span closer to our lifespan. And they are things which we know about things like you know cardio exercise you know walking and so on particularly Resistance training you know going to the gym or doing some sort of resistance training you know the kind of diet we eat the amount we sleep you know How much alcohol we drink there's a whole range of how much we interact with each other how we interact with each other there's I mean there's very clear determinants Of what our health span looks like and I think This is one of the things associated with a lot of the themes we've talked about tonight. So, our Capacity to participate in society as we age is going to be driven by how healthy We are.
The impact that the system is likely to have on us or we have on the System as we need increasing care is going to be impacted on what our health span looks like in the context of our Lifespan. We can all do this stuff and it's never too late. The evidence shows it doesn't matter how late you start Physical activity and some of these other determinist span. It makes a massive difference on what your aging process looks like.
Has it changed your life? Are you at the gym? Oh, it's fundamental. I mean, instead of riding my motorbike to work, which incidentally used to stress my health colleagues out all the time that my Wife's comfortable with, I ride a push bike to work now. For that very reason.
Very impressive. Very impressive. there is just one here. Oh, I had it. I had it and I've lost it now. that Blow it. I had about building. No, never mind. I won't. everyone deserves the dignity of a roof over their head, a Place protected from the weather, a place to sleep, eat, shower, toilet, and iron a shirt to be possibly job ready.
Surely many homes. but that was one question. And oh this was what said yes Given why can't we have different ways of living and have I'm paraphrasing now Because I saw it and I can't find it and if in effect break the bounds so we have joint living arrangements which at the moment are not allowed there's so many Rules and regulations you know when we used to do stories on this when I was on life matters and on Saturday extra they got more phone calls than anything Else but the but the regular population stayed very tough in terms of sort of interactive group homes, things like That. Why is this so? Why is it hard? Is it local governments or is it state governments? Do you might know the answer? Oh yeah, David does.
Just an initial comment, part of this is cultural, you know. So, for example, our daughter and son-in-law and our Grandson live in Queenstown in New Zealand. Just about every new house that is built has got some form of granny flat associated with it.
Really, nearly every single house has got a and it's considered a normal thing. And these are then rented out to people who Need rental accommodation. I mean, imagine if we did that. We have this idea in Australia like, oh, let's have the quarter acre block and a big house And live in the suburbs and barbecue on the weekend and so on, which is kind of a nice idea on one level, but it's just absolutely unsustainable as a society.
That's what they I finally found it. How can we sort of build so that we don't just have silos for older people? I thought that was very well put and Surely that does that, you know, is Uniting thinking about this, Connie? I think we do have some developments Where we have retirement living residential aged care and child care for example together. We don't have examples Where we have housing for younger people and older people together. But it certainly we're always open to Opportunities and thinking around how we could do things differently. But I guess it all comes down to how do you make it work and how does the system Fund it. So I think there are some barriers in that way.
But maybe as a society I think it's really very easy to Blame the system and government for all of the things but maybe we should think differently in our own sphere of control about how we live and what we do in Terms of sort of bridging some of that intergenerational I suppose the amount of effort you put in Dion.
Yes. So I have some very clear thoughts about this. I think that the opportunity that we have at the moment with what's happening with the housing crisis and Particularly affecting younger people is that we've got the opportunity to do intergenerational living. And I really Like the idea of buying something small and then expanding on that. So as we move on in life, so you know, we start Off in a small home as a couple, we then build something bigger that we can move into when we've got children of our own and rent the small thing out and then we Can keep expanding. And so all the way through our life, as you know, as we get older, we then move back into the smaller home that was on that block in The first place. I think that it makes a lot of sense to me. and the intergenerational aspect of that, I just Think that we're kind of being forced to do that anyway. So, we could kind of just look at, well, let's just take this as the opportunity to do it and make it work and be really intentional about it.
Look, thank you very much. And look, I won't go because I'm just watching the time and I want to give you all a chance To sort of summarize a bit, I suppose, as we sort of come towards the end. You know really trying to the aim has been to make this not just a story about aggravated aggravations around the Systems that are there but what might be possible ac across generations and I think we have canvased quite a few areas And so I suppose I would really like to ask each of you I'll ask you first Nelson if there was one change that you Could make practically speaking that might well I suppose I'm asking a policy question, but I'm also asking a Mentality question. What would it be to improve things?
, I think I think we just I think we need a very sort of clear understanding of I Guess the opportunities that come with aging. I think that you know you know I you know people will live longer Because we have you know we're improving our medic you know proving the medicines we're improving the care that people Are receiving and I think that as long as we can recognize that system requires everyone to contribute in their Own way I think there is a benefit to that. What I what I mean is that you know you know I think that younger people are happy to contribute to care For the people that need it. the people that have done really you know that are older have done really well in life they need to be willing to Contribute the care to more to their own care.
And for those that don't like I and those that do also  That are going into you know al older age like I feel like as long as there's a recognition that yes like I think Being just taking care of my you know taking care of myself is my contribution because you know being in You know I've you know I've been able to work closely with professor Brown here doing looking at a lot of aged care Issues and you know it's so much it's much less of a burden on the or a cost on the system for someone to be healthy Right so if people are taking the active steps to be active to actually you know take care of their health To eat well I think you end up with a higher quality of life as well as a as Well as a smaller cost to the system and I think that kind of benefits everyone hopefully you end up with a better Quality [laughter] Dion, what would you how would you answer that?
If there was one thing that I want everybody to take away is that we all some of us have a choice to invest and If we all look at investing into affordable housing which can be profitable if it's done the right way then I think that together we can solve the housing crisis.
So housing for you is still that is what occupies your center frame for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great vehicle for change. David, I think the most from my perspective the most important thing is that we have this conversation. You know, there's incredible innovation in intellect and creative thinking that sits within society. It sits in Universities. It sits in all sorts of areas. And so, you know, what we're doing tonight is having a conversation, surfacing some of these issues, thinking About how we might deal with some of these things, create the opportunities.
And unless we come together and talk with one another, a we don't understand the nature of how the other feels and thinks and what they need and require. We then don't have the capacity to contribute and give to that. And it's that collaboration that ultimately will Take care of, you know, the sorts of opportunities that emerge and each other as a society. So for me it's absolutely conversation together.
Connie, I think for me it's how do we reframe the massive amount of I guess experience, willingness to contribute that exists in the people who are getting older and make sure that we Design a society that enables that contribution to be seen, met and delivered. So I think for us I think Someone said it's you know we talk about getting older and all we talk about is care needs and I think it is how do we see how do we see the people and how do We see the things that they can continue to contribute and then how do we have a society that enables that to happen. So that's what I would change.
Yes. Look, I think that's actually and I suppose from the media's role, it's highlighting marvelous stories of people Who are living that sort of thing out and actually encouraging them to articulate what it is that they get out Of it and what they put in beyond the normal the normal rungs of work. You know, that's what I and you know There it is around there are they are they are coming. the boomers are obsessed. We're obsessed with ourselves.
Maybe that's the truth of it, too. But I do think it's coming. And the more that can look competent and sparkling, you Know, as if there's fun there, for goodness sake, bit of fun. I think that's what will make gradually quite a A bit of difference, I'm hoping. So, look, thank you all. Thank you to the participants who've been online.  And you know this sort of key purpose of the event that an aging Australia is a story about all of us, not just a Small group of people who are in trouble. And I think I'm hoping that we did take that away with us tonight. So ladies and gentlemen, would you please Thank our panellists, Connie, David, Dion, and Nelson. [applause] And there is a short survey if you care to take it. We'd love to hear from you because this is ongoing work. But Thank you again very much for being here tonight. Bye-bye.
[applause]

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